6 ms·

TwinLisp

18 points by parenthesis 18y ago

rtfa 18y ago
Excellent: a combination of C's syntax and extensibility with Common Lisp's speed. That's what I've been waiting for!
- jrockway 18y ago
  When I saw the operator precedence table, I stopped reading and said to myself, "congratulations, you just missed the whole point of lisp." And actually, SBCL is nearly as fast as C in many cases. So there's really no reason to not use CL, unless of course you don't like CL.
  - rkts 18y ago
    You don't have to program directly in an AST to do metaprogramming. It's a trade-off: some people feel it's important to make metaprogramming as easy as possible, while others feel it's more important to have readable syntax. Every Lisp dialect has some high-level syntax, e.g. quote, CL reader macros, and Arc ssyntax. These obscure the relationship between code and the underlying AST, but the designers felt that the gain in readability was worth it. How much syntax should there be? A hard question, but I think it would be good for Lisp to move in the "more" direction. Readability is one of the big problems I have with Lisp, and macros, while certainly useful, make up only a small fraction of my code.
- dehowell 18y ago
  I'm so pissed that I upvoted you, now that I've seen your contributions to other threads. But hey, you managed to finally make a comment that didn't call someone gay or disparage gay people... maybe some positive reinforcement will help you grow up. Good job! But yes, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to use TwinLisp.
  - tokipin 18y ago
    maybe they forgot what account they were on
logjam 18y ago
"TwinLisp is a language with C/Java - like syntax, but with internals and abilities of a Common Lisp" Um...C/Java syntax and the abilities of Common Lisp....and the webpage says s-expressions aren't needed to build macros....ummm...ok, could the author show us a few TwinLisp macros?
- jsmcgd 18y ago
 Here's one: mac &infinite-loop (body) { `do () { $@body }} S-expressions are permissible, so maybe it would be best to stick to those until you wrap your head around this crazy infix notation.
 - logjam 18y ago
 I grew up on simpleminded infix notation, and am overjoyed to have moved on. Perhaps we could see a macro example just slightly more complex.
jrockway 18y ago
I wonder what the Lisp world would be like if people wrote libraries for CL or Scheme instead of inventing their own weird-ass "lisp" dialect. The point of Lisp is that you don't need to invent your own language. Just "defmacro" and get back to solving your real problem.
- omouse 18y ago
 But you must admit that making a Lisp dialect is a good learning exercise heh. I don't see newbs learning Perl, Python, C++, Java, etc. by writing their own dialect or interpreter for them. Just "defmacro" and get back to solving your real problem. Learning isn't a real problem?
 - jrockway 18y ago
 Learning isn't a real problem? If you are just doing something for fun/learning, there is no need to release it to the world. I've written lots of programming languages, but I don't expect anyone to use them. I don't see newbs learning Perl, Python, C++, Java, etc. by writing their own dialect or interpreter for them. This language is more like C++ or Java than Lisp.
 - shard 18y ago
 If you are just doing something for fun/learning, there is no need to release it to the world. There's no need to keep it from the world either.
 - omouse 18y ago
 Exactly. The Internet is big enough that you can ignore the millions of learning projects that exist. It's not like we're running out of space or anything ;-)
- tokipin 18y ago
 CL is pretty ugly. Scheme isn't so hot either. it's the reason i stayed away from lisp in general for a good half year until Arc came out. it's like these languages had a chance to be pretty due to lisp's streamlined syntax... but they ruined it by using excessively verbose names and abusing the parentheses
lst 18y ago
If you want to like to freeze you in a Lisp newbie state, please go for it!

TwinLisp

18 points by parenthesis 18y ago

rtfa 18y ago

Excellent: a combination of C's syntax and extensibility with Common Lisp's speed. That's what I've been waiting for!

jrockway 18y ago
When I saw the operator precedence table, I stopped reading and said to myself, "congratulations, you just missed the whole point of lisp." And actually, SBCL is nearly as fast as C in many cases. So there's really no reason to not use CL, unless of course you don't like CL.
- rkts 18y ago
  You don't have to program directly in an AST to do metaprogramming. It's a trade-off: some people feel it's important to make metaprogramming as easy as possible, while others feel it's more important to have readable syntax. Every Lisp dialect has some high-level syntax, e.g. quote, CL reader macros, and Arc ssyntax. These obscure the relationship between code and the underlying AST, but the designers felt that the gain in readability was worth it. How much syntax should there be? A hard question, but I think it would be good for Lisp to move in the "more" direction. Readability is one of the big problems I have with Lisp, and macros, while certainly useful, make up only a small fraction of my code.
dehowell 18y ago
I'm so pissed that I upvoted you, now that I've seen your contributions to other threads. But hey, you managed to finally make a comment that didn't call someone gay or disparage gay people... maybe some positive reinforcement will help you grow up. Good job! But yes, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to use TwinLisp.
- tokipin 18y ago
  maybe they forgot what account they were on

logjam 18y ago

"TwinLisp is a language with C/Java - like syntax, but with internals and abilities of a Common Lisp" Um...C/Java syntax and the abilities of Common Lisp....and the webpage says s-expressions aren't needed to build macros....ummm...ok, could the author show us a few TwinLisp macros?

jsmcgd 18y ago
Here's one: mac &infinite-loop (body) { `do () { $@body }} S-expressions are permissible, so maybe it would be best to stick to those until you wrap your head around this crazy infix notation.
- logjam 18y ago
  I grew up on simpleminded infix notation, and am overjoyed to have moved on. Perhaps we could see a macro example just slightly more complex.

jrockway 18y ago

I wonder what the Lisp world would be like if people wrote libraries for CL or Scheme instead of inventing their own weird-ass "lisp" dialect. The point of Lisp is that you don't need to invent your own language. Just "defmacro" and get back to solving your real problem.

omouse 18y ago
But you must admit that making a Lisp dialect is a good learning exercise heh. I don't see newbs learning Perl, Python, C++, Java, etc. by writing their own dialect or interpreter for them. Just "defmacro" and get back to solving your real problem. Learning isn't a real problem?
- jrockway 18y ago
 Learning isn't a real problem? If you are just doing something for fun/learning, there is no need to release it to the world. I've written lots of programming languages, but I don't expect anyone to use them. I don't see newbs learning Perl, Python, C++, Java, etc. by writing their own dialect or interpreter for them. This language is more like C++ or Java than Lisp.
 - shard 18y ago
 If you are just doing something for fun/learning, there is no need to release it to the world. There's no need to keep it from the world either.
 - omouse 18y ago
 Exactly. The Internet is big enough that you can ignore the millions of learning projects that exist. It's not like we're running out of space or anything ;-)
tokipin 18y ago
CL is pretty ugly. Scheme isn't so hot either. it's the reason i stayed away from lisp in general for a good half year until Arc came out. it's like these languages had a chance to be pretty due to lisp's streamlined syntax... but they ruined it by using excessively verbose names and abusing the parentheses

lst 18y ago

If you want to like to freeze you in a Lisp newbie state, please go for it!