4 ms·

I hope not, but those can be famous last words. Even if AZ works as marketed, it's no where near 100%. Then we have different strains

fasteddie31003 6y ago
Nothing is going to ever be 100% safe. Live your life how you want, but I'm personally fine with a little risk and live a more fulfilling life with more life experiences. I ride a motorcycle. It's defiantly not safe, but I've had so many great memories on it that I am fine with the risk.
- totalZero 6y ago
  Plenty of motorcyclists forget to keep the rubber side down, get hurt, then continue riding after recuperating from injuries. Still, the consequences for those unfortunate riders can stay with them throughout life. Ride safe.
- potta_coffee 6y ago
  I rode my motorcycle to the burger shack, unvaccinated, without a helmet, where I doublfisted cheeseburgers and had a large chocolate shake. Life is for living indeed.
mikem170 6y ago
What you said about different strains has never been more than click-bait and conjecture. Please stopping spreading this, people are scared enough already. This is not how t-cell immunity and coronaviruses work [0]. From an article titled "Lab studies suggest Pfizer, Moderna vaccines can protect against coronavirus variant" I quote: "While the blood serum samples produced less neutralizing antibody activity, it was still enough to neutralize the virus, they wrote in a letter to the journal. This is in line with other studies. And it's well within what is seen with other viruses, one of the researchers said." [1] [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+immunity+from+other+coronaviruses https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+immunity+from+other+co... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/health/pfizer-vaccine-south-africa-variant/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/health/pfizer-vaccine-south-a...
- chaimanmeow 6y ago
  If you have a well functioning immune system the vaccine should likely impart an advantage over no immunity and you have a good chance of fighting off the SARS quicker than without vaccination or immunity. The problem however is those with weak immune systems. In these cases, the vaccine is unlikely to help these people much, and they become breeding grounds for escape variants. It's like taking a quarter dose of an antibiotic, against an infection of an organism that tends to mutate at a high rate. This places a large pressure on the organism for an escape variant. This is exactly what Bossche warns of. Listen to minute 37 onward: https://www.brighteon.com/257797f0-06fa-4596-be69-af71bb3adc21 https://www.brighteon.com/257797f0-06fa-4596-be69-af71bb3adc...
  - mikem170 6y ago
    I'm not sure why you brought up immunocompromised people. Does that have anything to do with the video you linked? Seems like a wash, they are immunocompromised and anything they catch will have time to live and mutate in them, not just covid19. Maybe this is something separate we should set aside? Or I don't understand the relevance. I watched enough of the video you sent to see what Dr. Bosche was saying - that vaccination immunity is more specific than natural immunity, and that may present problems down the road with variants. I also found this note/presentation/slides by him [0]. I read some of this to get more detail, video is kind of lame for relating so much information. I'm not a virologist. But I have read a bunch of this stuff. I thought what Dr. Bosche said was interesting. I had a few initial questions. I'd love to see more virologist's opinions on this. He says "Covid-19, a highly mutable virus, only needs to add another few mutations in its receptor-binding domain". I didn't know that covid19 was considered highly mutable, like the flu. Is he hedging here, saying this might happen? I guess the specific proteins that the vaccines target would need to mutate. I wonder how likely this is. I assume there are lots of things that are "several mutations" away from killing us all. Papers I've seen early on said that left to its own covid19 had a 50/50 chance of mutating to become no more deaadly than the common cold (because it would spread better that way), or settle into something that flares up every few years, like a bad flu season. I took that to mean that there are also pressures to mutate to something less deadly. They think this is what may have happened in 1873 (if memory serves), a new coronavirus came on the scene, it looked like a very bad flu season at the time. He mentioned several cases of young people dying from covid19 variants, and several cases of people shedding variants. "Several" is not a large number, especially considering how much we don't understand about the immune system. Typhoid Mary was shedding for years, and that had nothing to do with a vaccine. I don't know that I'd consider his several examples to be anything out of the ordinary out of a sample size of how many tens of millions. He seems to be saying we'd be better off if we didn't proceed with vaccinations and allowed the population to reach natural herd immunity at this point, since covid19 has already spread to so many people. That people who caught it and got better on their own would be better protected. This reminds me of the virologist early on who recommended finding the least deadly variant and spreading that around on purpose. It's an interesting topic, and I appreciate you bringing it up! I don't mean to argue over it, so much as relay my thoughts and left some of the details of what he's saying. Do you think most of the people fearful of variants are on the same page with this guy? The news stories I see mentioning problems with vaccines and variants don't ever seem to have solid sources/studies backing them up, I've never heard this guy mentioned before, and he seems to be a relatively lone voice at this point. I'd like to think that the experts have had a chance to hash all this out amongst themselves, but I know things don't always work out that nicely. [0] https://www.deblauwetijger.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Geert-vanden-Bossche.pdf https://www.deblauwetijger.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Ge...

fasteddie31003 6y ago

Nothing is going to ever be 100% safe. Live your life how you want, but I'm personally fine with a little risk and live a more fulfilling life with more life experiences. I ride a motorcycle. It's defiantly not safe, but I've had so many great memories on it that I am fine with the risk.

totalZero 6y ago
Plenty of motorcyclists forget to keep the rubber side down, get hurt, then continue riding after recuperating from injuries. Still, the consequences for those unfortunate riders can stay with them throughout life. Ride safe.
potta_coffee 6y ago
I rode my motorcycle to the burger shack, unvaccinated, without a helmet, where I doublfisted cheeseburgers and had a large chocolate shake. Life is for living indeed.

mikem170 6y ago

What you said about different strains has never been more than click-bait and conjecture. Please stopping spreading this, people are scared enough already. This is not how t-cell immunity and coronaviruses work [0]. From an article titled "Lab studies suggest Pfizer, Moderna vaccines can protect against coronavirus variant" I quote: "While the blood serum samples produced less neutralizing antibody activity, it was still enough to neutralize the virus, they wrote in a letter to the journal. This is in line with other studies. And it's well within what is seen with other viruses, one of the researchers said." [1] [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+immunity+from+other+coronaviruses https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+immunity+from+other+co... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/health/pfizer-vaccine-south-africa-variant/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/health/pfizer-vaccine-south-a...

chaimanmeow 6y ago
If you have a well functioning immune system the vaccine should likely impart an advantage over no immunity and you have a good chance of fighting off the SARS quicker than without vaccination or immunity. The problem however is those with weak immune systems. In these cases, the vaccine is unlikely to help these people much, and they become breeding grounds for escape variants. It's like taking a quarter dose of an antibiotic, against an infection of an organism that tends to mutate at a high rate. This places a large pressure on the organism for an escape variant. This is exactly what Bossche warns of. Listen to minute 37 onward: https://www.brighteon.com/257797f0-06fa-4596-be69-af71bb3adc21 https://www.brighteon.com/257797f0-06fa-4596-be69-af71bb3adc...
- mikem170 6y ago
  I'm not sure why you brought up immunocompromised people. Does that have anything to do with the video you linked? Seems like a wash, they are immunocompromised and anything they catch will have time to live and mutate in them, not just covid19. Maybe this is something separate we should set aside? Or I don't understand the relevance. I watched enough of the video you sent to see what Dr. Bosche was saying - that vaccination immunity is more specific than natural immunity, and that may present problems down the road with variants. I also found this note/presentation/slides by him [0]. I read some of this to get more detail, video is kind of lame for relating so much information. I'm not a virologist. But I have read a bunch of this stuff. I thought what Dr. Bosche said was interesting. I had a few initial questions. I'd love to see more virologist's opinions on this. He says "Covid-19, a highly mutable virus, only needs to add another few mutations in its receptor-binding domain". I didn't know that covid19 was considered highly mutable, like the flu. Is he hedging here, saying this might happen? I guess the specific proteins that the vaccines target would need to mutate. I wonder how likely this is. I assume there are lots of things that are "several mutations" away from killing us all. Papers I've seen early on said that left to its own covid19 had a 50/50 chance of mutating to become no more deaadly than the common cold (because it would spread better that way), or settle into something that flares up every few years, like a bad flu season. I took that to mean that there are also pressures to mutate to something less deadly. They think this is what may have happened in 1873 (if memory serves), a new coronavirus came on the scene, it looked like a very bad flu season at the time. He mentioned several cases of young people dying from covid19 variants, and several cases of people shedding variants. "Several" is not a large number, especially considering how much we don't understand about the immune system. Typhoid Mary was shedding for years, and that had nothing to do with a vaccine. I don't know that I'd consider his several examples to be anything out of the ordinary out of a sample size of how many tens of millions. He seems to be saying we'd be better off if we didn't proceed with vaccinations and allowed the population to reach natural herd immunity at this point, since covid19 has already spread to so many people. That people who caught it and got better on their own would be better protected. This reminds me of the virologist early on who recommended finding the least deadly variant and spreading that around on purpose. It's an interesting topic, and I appreciate you bringing it up! I don't mean to argue over it, so much as relay my thoughts and left some of the details of what he's saying. Do you think most of the people fearful of variants are on the same page with this guy? The news stories I see mentioning problems with vaccines and variants don't ever seem to have solid sources/studies backing them up, I've never heard this guy mentioned before, and he seems to be a relatively lone voice at this point. I'd like to think that the experts have had a chance to hash all this out amongst themselves, but I know things don't always work out that nicely. [0] https://www.deblauwetijger.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Geert-vanden-Bossche.pdf https://www.deblauwetijger.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Ge...