4 ms·

Does it matter if it's a coincidence if it works? The Placebo effect works, and doctors use it to treat patients all the time.

rendall 6y ago
It means that it may be some other element of ketamine that treats depression, not psychedelics, not placebo
astrange 6y ago
To be clear, it's not a placebo, ketamine definitely actually works and in fact works faster than prescription antidepressants. The problem is you might have to hang out with the people in this article! They seem like jerks and they're going to make you tell them about why you hate your dad and stuff like that. > This is something O’Brien has experience of. “Years ago I took [the powerful hallucinogen] ayahuasca in Iquitos, Peru. It was all a bit dodgy. I ended up in this dark little hut with breeze-block walls covered in sheets and 12 Peruvian ladies in deck chairs watching Friends really loudly next door. I thought I was going to be ritually sacrificed,” he says. Seems disrespectful to his hosts, I don't remember any ritual sacrifice in Friends.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
The Placebo effect works... sometimes. 30-60%. And it isn't something we can predict, so patient 1 might do well, but patient 2 and 3 do not get relief. It isn't something you can just give most people and expect it to work, in other words. That would be irresponsible. When something works, it tends to perform better than a placebo. This is even true for drugs that don't work well on everyone (like antidepressants). Can you imagine how horrible the placebo results were on such things?
- hntrader 6y ago
  Irving Kirsch puts the placebo effect at 82 percent for anti-depressants (after accounting for studies that were stopped early) and argues it's probably higher than that because patients are likely able to break the blinding protocol. He says the evidence of efficacy is only strong when it comes to treating severe depression.

rendall 6y ago

It means that it may be some other element of ketamine that treats depression, not psychedelics, not placebo

astrange 6y ago

To be clear, it's not a placebo, ketamine definitely actually works and in fact works faster than prescription antidepressants. The problem is you might have to hang out with the people in this article! They seem like jerks and they're going to make you tell them about why you hate your dad and stuff like that. > This is something O’Brien has experience of. “Years ago I took [the powerful hallucinogen] ayahuasca in Iquitos, Peru. It was all a bit dodgy. I ended up in this dark little hut with breeze-block walls covered in sheets and 12 Peruvian ladies in deck chairs watching Friends really loudly next door. I thought I was going to be ritually sacrificed,” he says. Seems disrespectful to his hosts, I don't remember any ritual sacrifice in Friends.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

The Placebo effect works... sometimes. 30-60%. And it isn't something we can predict, so patient 1 might do well, but patient 2 and 3 do not get relief. It isn't something you can just give most people and expect it to work, in other words. That would be irresponsible. When something works, it tends to perform better than a placebo. This is even true for drugs that don't work well on everyone (like antidepressants). Can you imagine how horrible the placebo results were on such things?

hntrader 6y ago
Irving Kirsch puts the placebo effect at 82 percent for anti-depressants (after accounting for studies that were stopped early) and argues it's probably higher than that because patients are likely able to break the blinding protocol. He says the evidence of efficacy is only strong when it comes to treating severe depression.