14 ms·
European Commission English Style Guide [pdf]
- nwellnhof 6y agoIt's interesting that after Brexit, only 1% of EU citizens are native English speakers. That's less than Bulgarian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union#Knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Unio...
- rev_d 6y agoThat seems a little incorrect, considering that Ireland is non-English only on paper.
- makomk 6y agoIreland is quite small compared to the current size of the EU.
- secfirstmd 6y agoYep we are about 1 percent or just over I think.
- cies 6y agoBut it has 2/3 the population of Bulgaria.
- saberdancer 6y agoThat's exactly the point. Ireland is only larger country in the EU with native English speakers.
- esperent 6y agoIreland has English as an official language, along with Irish.
- jobigoud 6y agoInterestingly it's now quite similar in number to Catalan, which after all these years is still not an official EU language despite being spoken by ~10M people (~4M natively) in multiple countries.
- happy_path 6y agoAll Spaniards can speak Spanish according to Spanish Constitution. Thus, Catalan is a regional language. If the EU should have to provide translations and material in each of the regional languages, the cost of coding laws would be quite a bit high.
- estaseuropano 6y agoThere's already 24 official languages: https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-languages_en https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-languages_en not even those get all translations: https://europa.eu/european-union/abouteuropa/language-policy_en https://europa.eu/european-union/abouteuropa/language-policy... And cost per page is around 80€ https://slator.com/industry-news/eur-82-per-page-inside-eu-translation-centres-2018-budget/ https://slator.com/industry-news/eur-82-per-page-inside-eu-t... Already 2006 translation cost was close to 1bn/year, must be much more now... https://euobserver.com/news/21459 https://euobserver.com/news/21459
- xxpor 6y agoI'm genuinely shocked only 43% know English as an additional language. I guess it depends on what level of knowledge they're looking for.
- mrtksn 6y agoEastern Europe used to be under USSR influence, which made English language education a rarity. Russian and French were much more popular. The public signs often had French as foreign language, not English. Older generations often know some French, Russian,German and even Spanish but rarely know any English. Minorities often speak the language of the country they live in, their mother tongue and 1 or 2 of the language listed above. For younger generation it’s completely different of course, most speak the local language, the mother tongue and English + the language of the country they work if they are working abroad.
- gpvos 6y agoIn Slovakia, I met a waitress of about 25 years old who only spoke Slovak, Hungarian and a third language that I also didn't speak, maybe it was Russian. In a night train from Poland to Germany, I met someone of about 30 who only spoke Polish and German. So it can still differ a lot per person. (I only speak several western European languages.)
- iagovar 6y agoYou can have an entire life in and out of the internet with spanish, without need of English. I'm not saying it's the optimal choice, but only if you get technical you'll miss something. And this is even when localized results separate sites for Spain and Latin america. There's a bit of cross-interaction, but not that much. I guess this is possible with other languages to a varying degree.
- xxpor 6y agoI mean it seems totally plausible. Just based on my interactions in Europe (as a dumb non-multilingual English speaker), I'd just have guessed it'd be higher. I've never come across anyone who's had ZERO English skills, while that was somewhat common in Tokyo, for example. Granted, almost all of my time in Europe has been spent in cities so that probably matters a lot.
- esperent 6y agoI think that's a little misleading though, since virtually all north western Europeans (Netherlands, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium etc.) that I've met who are under 35 or so speak English at very close to a native level. You can't say that about Bulgarian.
- mattmanser 6y agoBeing half-dutch, I wouldn't say fluent. Have you actually been to those countries, are are you just going by travellers you met? Even in Holland, which has an extremely good English education from 7 or 8 has plenty of people who are good, but not fluent, and for the older generations it's much, much lower level, broken sentences, much smaller vocabulary. When I was in France last time, 3 years ago, still plenty who struggled after I'd exhausted my terrible French. I've also noticed the French tend to speak French in game voice chat where almost everyone else will be using English, apart from Italians and maybe Arabic or Turkish or something (I don't really recognise the language).
- refraincomment 6y agoGood metaphor of what the EU represents. A 120 pages manual on how to be a completely dull person.
- mhh__ 6y agoAnd? Don't you want your politicians to be boring, really
- Tor3 6y agoA 120-page manual about good writing practices - and that makes the reader a dull person? I read through the beginning of the document and it looks good to me. It seems to be a well-written readable document which can be immediately useful for people writing company documentation (such as myself - occasionally I have to pause writing code all day).
- Uberphallus 6y agoAnd most importantly, consistency among documents produced by the same body.
- pavlov 6y agoLegislation that needs to be translated into 24 languages is better off dull than ambiguous.
- refraincomment 6y agoDon't make me laugh about accuracy. EU is the most incompetent AND dull institution in the world.
- cromka 6y agoWe're all eagerly awaiting the most recent "World survey: the assessment of incompetence and dullness of the para-governmental organizations" report you forgot to link to.
- 6y ago
- eplanit 6y agoVery glad to not see any new silly woke rules regarding capitalization.
- statstutor 6y agoThe fact that you needed to check for a particular rule suggests that it is perfectly suitable for a style guide.
- dang 6y ago"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dash2 6y agoI immediately looked for the Commission's ruling on the Oxford comma. They approve it in only limited circumstances: "An additional comma before the final item is sometimes essential to help clarify the sense. Compare the examples below: X may not be added to beef, ham or processed meat and milk products [unclear] The use of X is forbidden in beef, ham or processed meat, and milk products" Bold, EC, very bold. But could this spark a backlash?
- me_me_me 6y agohaha, I just glanced at the contents section and then caught myself reading the same section. But got work to do :) So dull as this document sounds, I find it interesting reading.
- klodolph 6y agoNeither option (Oxford comma or no Oxford comma) is a bold choice. Both alternatives are endorsed by various style guides. Oxford comma is more common in the US, omitting it is more common in England, but every style guide agrees that the comma should be added / removed as necessary to fix ambiguity. There are definitely cases where introducing the serial comma creates ambiguity, because it can look like an appositive.
- da_big_ghey 6y agoMaybe are some irony in have "Oxford" coma use in America. Not use in Britain.
- laGrenouille 6y agoI think the name comes from the fact that Oxford is one of the few British style guides that encourage its use. In the U.S., most style guides at a minimum suggest it as a common option. Hence the somewhat ironic sounding name in a global context.
- MomoXenosaga 6y agoThe English language has transcended the English. The global English a Chinese person speaks with a French person is delightfully unconcerned with the Oxford dictionary. Iirc there is only one country in the EU left that speaks English.
- cies 6y agoWith brexit we may want to use US spelling, just to piss m off. Also with brexit, the only country in the EU that speaks English is Ireland, and even they prefer to say they dont. Finally we can setup English as the language of the parliament, as it no longer favours one country over an other.
- Symbiote 6y agoEnglish is an official language of Malta.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ginko 6y agoPersonally I'd be in favor of a full orthography reform so you can actually write English like it is pronounced.
- wl 6y agoWhich pronunciation would you codify? And we'd have to do it all over again in 200 years.
- ginko 6y ago> Which pronunciation would you codify? How the average German fluent in English pronounces it.
- _pmf_ 6y agoZiz iz a gud aidi.
- BitwiseFool 6y agoI wonder how that will be possible without using accented letters. English doesn't use them but it seems like it should. E.g. Refuse (deny) / Refuse (trash), Permit (allow)/ Permit (a document of permission), Record (Vinyl)/ Record (to save)
- FinanceAnon 6y agoIn the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru. Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
- d0mdo0ss 6y agoHihi, weal, francli de inglish languej culd rader be used as a sujestion for combaining multipl langazhes intu ei hosh-posh of sorts. It did lid as rader tu dis steit of afers, after ol. Hau abaut starting wiz pronouncin leters as dei show and no more funi interpreteisions and pronunsiasions.
- happy_path 6y agoA phonological reform would be more appropiate than a spelling reform. English texts would keep the same and only the pronunciation would change.
- xxpor 6y agoHa! First we'd have to agree on the existing phonology!
- DiggyJohnson 6y agoI cheerfully think that there is no way you're correct in this. The inertia of literature is nearly impossible to overcome; the nuance of phonology is impossible.
- schuke 6y agoWhy say lot word when few word do trick? When me president, they see, they see.
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoThe EU needs to go further, and adopt a formal 'EU English', providing a framework for schools across the bloc to offer public education in English at all levels, at least in major cities. Adults can already move across the continent and work and speak English - why not children? Right now, its basically impossible to move across the continent with a family - you will need to send your children to expensive international schools. This is definitely one of the factors why the fertility rate in Europe is so low. For example in Bulgaria, international schooling in English in high school is about $12,000/year/child - more than the average annual salary! This is one of the major reasons the Anglosphere countries are such major migrant destinations - completely free Government education in English.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dkjaudyeqooe 6y agoEnglish is already becoming the de facto EU wide language, but things like schooling in English will take a lot more time. Local populations get a bit paranoid about the local language "dying" because a few foreigners choose not to learn it.
- mattmanser 6y agoThe English have now left though, perhaps they'll try and revive French's popularity as the language of diplomacy?
- dkjaudyeqooe 6y agoThat's what's cemented Englishes ascendancy. No one wanted to give the British yet another advantage, now they're gone. The French have already lost that battle (English won), but I doubt they'll ever stop pushing their language.
- Morvan 6y ago>The EU needs to go further No it doesn't. It is not within the purview of this supranational bureaucracy to be the gatekeeper of the English language. Bulgarians can stick with Bulgarian. There is a lot to do in that country to make it prosper on its own.