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Bitcoin uses almost as much energy we spend to run the internet datacenters [1],[2]. 121 TWh/y for bitcoin (just bitcoin, not crypto), 205TWh/y for the Interne

Bitcoin uses almost as much energy we spend to run the internet datacenters [1],[2]. 121 TWh/y for bitcoin (just bitcoin, not crypto), 205TWh/y for the Internet data centers. Just pause for a second and think about the magnitude of the waste. [1] https://energyinnovation.org/2020/03/17/how-much-energy-do-data-centers-really-use/ https://energyinnovation.org/2020/03/17/how-much-energy-do-d... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

disruptalot 6y ago
Unbelievable. Is it really worth boiling the oceans? It's critical that we move to text only internet that has a per site cap of 100kb. That would cut the energy usage by 99% with virtually no difference to the experience.
- adflux 6y ago
  >It's critical that we move to text only internet that has a per site cap of 100kb Are you for real?
  - DataGata 6y ago
    They are being sarcastic so as to parody the OP
nvilcins 6y ago
What fraction of the global "energy throughput" is this?
- dnadler 6y ago
  It looks like the world as a whole consumes > 100,000 TWh per year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption#Energy_supply,_consumption_and_electricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption#Energ...
  - whatever1 6y ago
    That is not the electricity produced. That number includes for example wood burned for heating. The electricity is around 20,000. So the Internet consumes ~ 1% of that.
    - dnadler 6y ago
      Hmm, where do you see that information? I admittedly am not reading the entire article, but this section seems to be in agreement with my original comment. In any case, I'm not sure why we should be excluding energy used for heating from the discussion. > In 2014, world primary energy supply amounted to 155,481 terawatt-hour (TWh) or 13,541 million tonne of oil equivalent (Mtoe), while the world final energy consumption was 109,613 TWh or about 29.5% less than the total supply.[12] World final energy consumption includes products as lubricants, asphalt and petrochemicals which have chemical energy content but are not used as fuel. This non-energy use amounted to 9,723 TWh (836 Mtoe) in 2015.[13]
- danbruc 6y ago
  0.11 % of all energy, 0.47 % of electricity, using 2017 numbers from Wikipedia [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption
throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
To put things in perspective, a single Bitcoin transaction (transaction, not block), consumes roughly as much energy as driving a Tesla Model 3 from Los Angeles to New York.
- whatever1 6y ago
  But do the trading apps actually transact? When I buy crypto in Robinhood, I really doubt that there is a dedicated transaction for me. Probably RH is buying batches of crypto and “distributes” their value equivalent to the buyers/sellers.
  - throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
    That's my understanding, too. On some (most?) exchanges, you're not really buying Bitcoin, you're buying a balance on that exchange - a right to withdraw or transact BTC at moment's notice. Given the amount of shady practices, it wouldn't surprise me if some exchanges operated on fractional reserves, being vulnerable to bank runs, a practice that many BTC adherents decry the traditional banking sector for.
  - xbar 6y ago
    No. But what is the effect on BitCoin demand and the pressure to produce more BitCoins when you make that trade?

disruptalot 6y ago

Unbelievable. Is it really worth boiling the oceans? It's critical that we move to text only internet that has a per site cap of 100kb. That would cut the energy usage by 99% with virtually no difference to the experience.

adflux 6y ago
>It's critical that we move to text only internet that has a per site cap of 100kb Are you for real?
- DataGata 6y ago
  They are being sarcastic so as to parody the OP

nvilcins 6y ago

What fraction of the global "energy throughput" is this?

dnadler 6y ago
It looks like the world as a whole consumes > 100,000 TWh per year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption#Energy_supply,_consumption_and_electricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption#Energ...
- whatever1 6y ago
  That is not the electricity produced. That number includes for example wood burned for heating. The electricity is around 20,000. So the Internet consumes ~ 1% of that.
  - dnadler 6y ago
    Hmm, where do you see that information? I admittedly am not reading the entire article, but this section seems to be in agreement with my original comment. In any case, I'm not sure why we should be excluding energy used for heating from the discussion. > In 2014, world primary energy supply amounted to 155,481 terawatt-hour (TWh) or 13,541 million tonne of oil equivalent (Mtoe), while the world final energy consumption was 109,613 TWh or about 29.5% less than the total supply.[12] World final energy consumption includes products as lubricants, asphalt and petrochemicals which have chemical energy content but are not used as fuel. This non-energy use amounted to 9,723 TWh (836 Mtoe) in 2015.[13]
danbruc 6y ago
0.11 % of all energy, 0.47 % of electricity, using 2017 numbers from Wikipedia [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago

To put things in perspective, a single Bitcoin transaction (transaction, not block), consumes roughly as much energy as driving a Tesla Model 3 from Los Angeles to New York.

whatever1 6y ago
But do the trading apps actually transact? When I buy crypto in Robinhood, I really doubt that there is a dedicated transaction for me. Probably RH is buying batches of crypto and “distributes” their value equivalent to the buyers/sellers.
- throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
  That's my understanding, too. On some (most?) exchanges, you're not really buying Bitcoin, you're buying a balance on that exchange - a right to withdraw or transact BTC at moment's notice. Given the amount of shady practices, it wouldn't surprise me if some exchanges operated on fractional reserves, being vulnerable to bank runs, a practice that many BTC adherents decry the traditional banking sector for.
- xbar 6y ago
  No. But what is the effect on BitCoin demand and the pressure to produce more BitCoins when you make that trade?