Yeah, I think we perhaps are violently agreeing with each other :) I /definitely/ agree with you that it's pointless to do this at an F500. Perhaps where my thi

Yeah, I think we perhaps are violently agreeing with each other :) I /definitely/ agree with you that it's pointless to do this at an F500. Perhaps where my thinking comes from is that I've predominantly worked in startups, precisely to avoid this issue. That's not to say that startups prevent these issues -- far from it. Just that you get a different set of tools and a different environment that can often cut it out almost completely for a long period of time. The reason I argue so vehemently against normalizing this kind of stuff (even if it is normal at F500s) is that it can create a level of learned helplessness. When I worked at such a company, it was absolutely everywhere. Despite the fact that folks were well paid, they had a list of grievances a mile long that made every waking hour at work absolutely miserable. But whenever I asked why they didn't just leave for greener pastures, the answer was along the lines of that learned helplessness -- survival instinct, etc. For me, the answer was simply "I can do better than this elsewhere. I will vote with my feet." I think that sent a different message to the management chain, and I don't regret it.