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The company I work for has forbidden the use of Google and their services such as GCP etc. due to how they treat their Play Store developers and other customer,

The company I work for has forbidden the use of Google and their services such as GCP etc. due to how they treat their Play Store developers and other customer, in particular that there never seems to be any human being that you can talk to and find out what you need to do to fix the situation. We do not want the same to occur to our servers or if there is an overflow from Play Store ban to GCP etc. The business risk is too high when you rely on Google's services. Some examples: Terraria banned - https://twitter.com/Demilogic/status/1358661840402845696 https://twitter.com/Demilogic/status/1358661840402845696 New project banned - https://medium.com/@amton15127/why-you-should-not-use-firebase-and-google-cloud-c05fe6ccdbe8 https://medium.com/@amton15127/why-you-should-not-use-fireba... Google bans company - https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/8kvias/tifu_by_getting_google_to_ban_our_entire_company/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/8kvias/tifu_by_gettin... Google bans mail - https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-serf-on-googles-farm https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-serf-on-googles-farm Ban app for communicating changes during covid - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221447 Adwords ban - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23224791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23224791 Serverpunch bad support - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17431609 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17431609 Delete app - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20826618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20826618 Google bans game with pandemic - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229073 Google bans dev with no recourse - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15197357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15197357

ryan29 6y ago
Another good example of an awful implementation can be seen in Google Workspace. Sometimes the crappy ML algorithms will generate a false positive and suspend an account for a suspicious login. Fine. I get it. It’s hard to do at scale and nothing’s perfect. The thing I’d like to have Google explain to me is why they think it’s a good idea to bounce incoming mail for a user that’s been auto-suspended by an algorithm. In what scenario would I want that, especially when the account is locked at 3:00 AM local time? That’s something that actually happened to me this weekend. For anyone at Google, NO ONE wants their incoming email bounced because of your crappy ML algorithms.
- house9-2 6y ago
  Same thing happened to me yesterday, I had to switch my MX records over to fastmail as that was easier than trying to figure out how to resolve the issue with Google directly. I had been forwarding all of my email from my domain to my personal Gmail (the irony) so haven't lost anything except a Sundays worth of incoming emails which bounced. In my case I was still using a free account for my custom domain, grandfathered in. I guess I get what I paid for...
  - ryan29 6y ago
    Was it your admin account that got locked? That's a big fear of mine. If so, did you have any of the account recovery options set up? Ex: 2FA, phone number, recovery email, etc.? IMHO a lot of account "security" is intentionally made to be overly aggressive so tech companies can lock your account and verify your ID / get your phone number. If you're using anything for business the only option is to diligently set up all the recovery options that are available, even though that means giving them a ton of personal information.
    - house9-2 6y ago
      Yeah, locked my primary account and the admin account. There was no option to use any recovery options that I could see. And today I get an email saying my accounts are now enabled? The computers are definitely in control. Glad I was forced to move away at this point, locking accounts is one thing, but bouncing emails not cool.
hnick 6y ago
It's rife in the industry. The drama this week is that my wife can't log in to Facebook because their code generator just doesn't work. The number in the app shows up, she types it, but she can't log in because apparently it's just wrong. Due to their marvelous design, you need a personal account to run an advertising account for your place of work. Luckily she hasn't been logged out on her work laptop yet or she couldn't do a large part of her job. Business support? Yeah good luck, try googling and you'll get pages of dead links or suggestions to click something when you're already logged in.
- JimDabell 6y ago
  If you haven’t already, check the time / date / timezone on the device that is generating the codes. Facebook uses TOTP for this, which is time-based. If the time on your device is wrong, the codes will be wrong. I would expect this problem to pop up more frequently this time of year due to errors relating to daylight saving time.
  - kokx 6y ago
    DST has nothing to do with TOTP. The TOTP spec specifies that unix time has to be used as the time source, which does not have DST.
    - JimDabell 6y ago
      That doesn't matter, DST-related events can still break TOTP. Example: Device is set to the wrong timezone. It’s nearby, but the difference between the two timezones is that one has DST and one doesn’t. DST comes along, either the time changes by an hour when it isn’t supposed to, or it doesn’t change when it is supposed to. The most visible thing that looks broken to the user is not the timezone, but the time. So they adjust the time. The user-visible clock is now “correct” for the next six months as far as the user sees, but the system clock – including UNIX timestamps – is incorrect by an hour. This results in broken TOTP.
      - kokx 6y ago
heavyset_go 6y ago
This is a prime example of why Google and Apple's mobile app distribution duopoly needs to be disrupted. They're poor stewards of this space, and they've kept an iron grip on the mobile app market for over a decade, now.
tempodox 6y ago
Makes sense. The best thing you can do with Google is to stay as far away as possible.
swiley 6y ago
Smartphone app development is a poor investment. Just build a good website.
- derekp7 6y ago
  That brings up a question I've had -- so many web sites seem to work better as an app. Is that because app development is easier, or is there some things that you can do with an app that you can't do through web standards? Specifically what types of items can't be [easily] done as a web app but are easy as a smartphone app?
  - euph0ria 6y ago
    Push notifications. One of the primary reasons why companies haven't switched to PWA for simple apps.
    - derekp7 6y ago
      Then what is that popup I get all the time visiting sites that says "Allow site xyz to send notifications"? Is that different than push notifications?
      - euph0ria 6y ago
        Doesn't work on Safari / iOS.
      - toast0 6y ago
        App push notifications can be silent, but web based notifications can't. That means you can push updated content without disturbing the user in an app, but not for a webpage.
    - swiley 6y ago
      I would rather just get an email at this point.
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
aidenn0 6y ago
I really don't understand why google doesn't offer some sort of human support. It's not terribly hard to implement something that is revenue neutral (or even positive), and the customers with the most money to spend are really going to want it.
- solarmist 6y ago
  Because they’re a “tech” company through and through and to them it’s a step backwards.
diogenescynic 6y ago
Some Google employee usually chimes in on these to provide a link to some forum where if you just follow these specific steps for one specific problem, you might be able to fix it. But it ignores everyone else who doesn't fit into that narrow range. Google has worse customer service than Comcast.

ryan29 6y ago

Another good example of an awful implementation can be seen in Google Workspace. Sometimes the crappy ML algorithms will generate a false positive and suspend an account for a suspicious login. Fine. I get it. It’s hard to do at scale and nothing’s perfect. The thing I’d like to have Google explain to me is why they think it’s a good idea to bounce incoming mail for a user that’s been auto-suspended by an algorithm. In what scenario would I want that, especially when the account is locked at 3:00 AM local time? That’s something that actually happened to me this weekend. For anyone at Google, NO ONE wants their incoming email bounced because of your crappy ML algorithms.

house9-2 6y ago
Same thing happened to me yesterday, I had to switch my MX records over to fastmail as that was easier than trying to figure out how to resolve the issue with Google directly. I had been forwarding all of my email from my domain to my personal Gmail (the irony) so haven't lost anything except a Sundays worth of incoming emails which bounced. In my case I was still using a free account for my custom domain, grandfathered in. I guess I get what I paid for...
- ryan29 6y ago
  Was it your admin account that got locked? That's a big fear of mine. If so, did you have any of the account recovery options set up? Ex: 2FA, phone number, recovery email, etc.? IMHO a lot of account "security" is intentionally made to be overly aggressive so tech companies can lock your account and verify your ID / get your phone number. If you're using anything for business the only option is to diligently set up all the recovery options that are available, even though that means giving them a ton of personal information.
  - house9-2 6y ago
    Yeah, locked my primary account and the admin account. There was no option to use any recovery options that I could see. And today I get an email saying my accounts are now enabled? The computers are definitely in control. Glad I was forced to move away at this point, locking accounts is one thing, but bouncing emails not cool.

hnick 6y ago

It's rife in the industry. The drama this week is that my wife can't log in to Facebook because their code generator just doesn't work. The number in the app shows up, she types it, but she can't log in because apparently it's just wrong. Due to their marvelous design, you need a personal account to run an advertising account for your place of work. Luckily she hasn't been logged out on her work laptop yet or she couldn't do a large part of her job. Business support? Yeah good luck, try googling and you'll get pages of dead links or suggestions to click something when you're already logged in.

JimDabell 6y ago
If you haven’t already, check the time / date / timezone on the device that is generating the codes. Facebook uses TOTP for this, which is time-based. If the time on your device is wrong, the codes will be wrong. I would expect this problem to pop up more frequently this time of year due to errors relating to daylight saving time.
- kokx 6y ago
  DST has nothing to do with TOTP. The TOTP spec specifies that unix time has to be used as the time source, which does not have DST.
  - JimDabell 6y ago
    That doesn't matter, DST-related events can still break TOTP. Example: Device is set to the wrong timezone. It’s nearby, but the difference between the two timezones is that one has DST and one doesn’t. DST comes along, either the time changes by an hour when it isn’t supposed to, or it doesn’t change when it is supposed to. The most visible thing that looks broken to the user is not the timezone, but the time. So they adjust the time. The user-visible clock is now “correct” for the next six months as far as the user sees, but the system clock – including UNIX timestamps – is incorrect by an hour. This results in broken TOTP.
    - kokx 6y ago

heavyset_go 6y ago

This is a prime example of why Google and Apple's mobile app distribution duopoly needs to be disrupted. They're poor stewards of this space, and they've kept an iron grip on the mobile app market for over a decade, now.

tempodox 6y ago

Makes sense. The best thing you can do with Google is to stay as far away as possible.

swiley 6y ago

Smartphone app development is a poor investment. Just build a good website.

derekp7 6y ago
That brings up a question I've had -- so many web sites seem to work better as an app. Is that because app development is easier, or is there some things that you can do with an app that you can't do through web standards? Specifically what types of items can't be [easily] done as a web app but are easy as a smartphone app?
- euph0ria 6y ago
  Push notifications. One of the primary reasons why companies haven't switched to PWA for simple apps.
  - derekp7 6y ago
    Then what is that popup I get all the time visiting sites that says "Allow site xyz to send notifications"? Is that different than push notifications?
    - euph0ria 6y ago
      Doesn't work on Safari / iOS.
    - toast0 6y ago
      App push notifications can be silent, but web based notifications can't. That means you can push updated content without disturbing the user in an app, but not for a webpage.
  - swiley 6y ago
    I would rather just get an email at this point.
- ficklepickle 6y ago

aidenn0 6y ago

I really don't understand why google doesn't offer some sort of human support. It's not terribly hard to implement something that is revenue neutral (or even positive), and the customers with the most money to spend are really going to want it.

solarmist 6y ago
Because they’re a “tech” company through and through and to them it’s a step backwards.

diogenescynic 6y ago

Some Google employee usually chimes in on these to provide a link to some forum where if you just follow these specific steps for one specific problem, you might be able to fix it. But it ignores everyone else who doesn't fit into that narrow range. Google has worse customer service than Comcast.