7 ms·

What political agenda?

simion314 6y ago
When the giants banned that app after the incidents in 6 January in US, you see a lot of comment like "free markets" and build your own platform from scratch including banks, ISPs and hosting. P.S. I am not from US so I am not in a blue or red camp, I just don't like it when some big corporation can lock you out of your account, decide what books you can read, what apps you can install or brick your application/device ( I am thinking at the case where Photoshop stopped working in Venezuela and how on some systems the device will contact the mother ships at boot/resume or when you launch an apo for "security" reasons that could be used in future to block you using the device or app)
- throwaways885 6y ago
  The problem with that line of thinking is the book burners will automatically assume your politics. Sad.
- unityByFreedom 6y ago
  I'm fine with banning apps that permit organizing violent insurrection in response to independently certified elections. That isn't the case here however and I expect some resolution will come.
  - throwaways885 6y ago
    Why didn't the primary app involved banned then? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/opinion/facebook-far-right.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/opinion/facebook-far-righ...
    - unityByFreedom 6y ago
      Not sure Facebook was primary but.. Did people really post about storming the capitol using their real names?
      - throwaways885 6y ago
        Of course they did - after all, they wouldn't do it if they thought they were in the wrong. In fairness, the vast majority of those who went to the capitol that day were there for the Trump rally, not smashing up congress.
    - myko 6y ago
      Parler's stated goal was to allow that type of speech while Facebook at least put a cursory amount of effort in blocking it.
      - bavell 6y ago
        Hmm, so as long as the firehose of vomit continues to spew from the PR dept, it's all good? All you have to do is make it look like you're doing something? Never used parler and not defending them but idk why facebook gets a free pass from you, they are far more to blame for the events that transpired IMO.
        myko 6y ago
        Facebook doesn't get a free pass from me, I'm just pointing out that Facebook made at least an attempt, publicly, to combat insurrectionists / hate speech while Parler advertised as a safe space for the same. These are just the facts, interpret them as you wish. IMO: Facebook (and YouTube, and Twitter) could and should do a lot more. The more they do the more likely it is they will be legislated out of existence and I'm not sure how they strike a good balance there. I also think Facebook in particular could do better but doesn't want to in order to keep engagement up - yet they want the good PR they can get for banning hate speech. They're trying to have it both ways and are awful. That's still different than Parler where the entire reason it exists is to push radical viewpoints without governance.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > I'm fine with banning apps that permit organizing violent insurrection in response to independently certified elections. First of all, Trump was a sitting President. Second of all, the left/DNC spent 8 months burning American downtowns, which is the real "violent insurrection." Third, there were no "independently certified elections," unless you mean the one that was overturned during the 2020 election, and the one in 2021.
  - elastolin 6y ago
    > I'm okay with deplatforming, but only when it suits me Jesus, just shut the fuck up.
    - dang 6y ago
      We've banned this account. You can't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - simion314 6y ago
    How do you draw the line exactly? What if someone used FB or the official Appole/Google email/chat apps to start a revolution in some country? For illegal stuff you have laws and examples, for this stuff you need to guess what Silicon Valley does not like and censor your content just in case. For the case you mention, do you think it helped? As I said I am not from US so I have no idea if the were any effects.
    - unityByFreedom 6y ago
      It's not me who draws the line and that's the point. Government/the public isn't involved. The companies themselves draw the line.
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    Still claiming it was a “violent insurrection”, even when experts have been clear this wasn’t one (https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/06/why-this-wasnt-a-coup-capitol-2020-election-trump/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/06/why-this-wasnt-a-coup-c...)? A handful of people stormed the Capitol, and nearly none of them were there to stage an “insurrection”. Most were just there as protesters who got carried away. There were also tens of thousands more in DC participating in rallies and protests without ever having stormed the Capitol as well. Also, this was far from the only time protesters invaded the Capitol. It was the only time so much attention was given to it by news media and social media alike, however. I’m sure you spoke up when hundreds stormed the Capitol during Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings, where hundreds were arrested, correct (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/405500-212-protesters-total-arrested-during-kavanaugh-hearings https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/405500-212-protesters-to...)? As for Parler - with millions of users, almost 100% of content being completely fine, and with more of the riot being planned on Facebook, banning Parler was simply an ideological power move by left biased tech companies who have no respect for free speech principles.
  - tsdlts 6y ago
    Very good, let's petition to ban signal. In fact, let's ban encryption altogether as such a technology can be used to coordinate terrorist attacks.
    - unityByFreedom 6y ago
      No, that's government level. I'm only fine with private entities choosing to do or not do business with whom they please. If google wants to block apps that use encryption then they can do it. Of course that would destroy their business so they won't.
- IndySun 6y ago
  Simion314, If you would indulge another non-political poster. Playing devils advocate with and exploring your ps... >some big corporation What about a small one? >lock you out, decide what you read, apps you install or brick your application Are these an abuse of power? Illegal? Unethical? Is it their right to do these things to maintain some focus? (The example here is often that one does not want profanity, sexual content, violence content where any children or family are involved - if that is acceptable to you, why not the above?) ps, I also hate it when software won't work without a 'security' handshake.
  - simion314 6y ago
    I am for moderating stuff in general. So if you have a forum and want to ban politics or religious topic that is fine IMO. I would also be fine if Google or Apple would ban an application because it does something illegal or it's name/icon/description is offensive and it could "pollute" the store listing. I don't like when the giants try to ban some small applications because of user generated content but they never ban YouTube(remember the issues with pedos?) The issue I have with the giants is that this is not a "Free market", you have only 2 players that are smart enough to correctly play the "prisoner dilemma" so both win. Maybe in that political case they were right to ban that application but is still uncomfortable to know that 99% of mobile market is censored by the 2 giants. Conclusion: Moderating content on your website is fine, but banning legal apps or websites because should not be easy, there should be a police,judge or some other official request behind it at least.
    - IndySun 6y ago
      Thank you. We disagree on little. However one should be careful with broad terms like' offence'. To whom do you allocate the task of deciding for you what is offensive, is the tricky part. The silicon corporates do move the goalposts to suit. Governments are not fair all the time. Where you are born impacts hugely on your life. And the laughably named 'free market' has the same flaws. All of these issues we are discussing will be alleviated, though not eradicated (impossible), the more we move towards an equal and fairer society.
  - 6y ago
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
My guess: when it was about banning right-wing focused apps like Gab.

When the giants banned that app after the incidents in 6 January in US, you see a lot of comment like "free markets" and build your own platform from scratch including banks, ISPs and hosting. P.S. I am not from US so I am not in a blue or red camp, I just don't like it when some big corporation can lock you out of your account, decide what books you can read, what apps you can install or brick your application/device ( I am thinking at the case where Photoshop stopped working in Venezuela and how on some systems the device will contact the mother ships at boot/resume or when you launch an apo for "security" reasons that could be used in future to block you using the device or app)

throwaways885 6y ago
The problem with that line of thinking is the book burners will automatically assume your politics. Sad.
unityByFreedom 6y ago
I'm fine with banning apps that permit organizing violent insurrection in response to independently certified elections. That isn't the case here however and I expect some resolution will come.
- throwaways885 6y ago
  Why didn't the primary app involved banned then? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/opinion/facebook-far-right.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/opinion/facebook-far-righ...
  - unityByFreedom 6y ago
    Not sure Facebook was primary but.. Did people really post about storming the capitol using their real names?
    - throwaways885 6y ago
      Of course they did - after all, they wouldn't do it if they thought they were in the wrong. In fairness, the vast majority of those who went to the capitol that day were there for the Trump rally, not smashing up congress.
  - myko 6y ago
    Parler's stated goal was to allow that type of speech while Facebook at least put a cursory amount of effort in blocking it.
    - bavell 6y ago
      Hmm, so as long as the firehose of vomit continues to spew from the PR dept, it's all good? All you have to do is make it look like you're doing something? Never used parler and not defending them but idk why facebook gets a free pass from you, they are far more to blame for the events that transpired IMO.
      - myko 6y ago
        Facebook doesn't get a free pass from me, I'm just pointing out that Facebook made at least an attempt, publicly, to combat insurrectionists / hate speech while Parler advertised as a safe space for the same. These are just the facts, interpret them as you wish. IMO: Facebook (and YouTube, and Twitter) could and should do a lot more. The more they do the more likely it is they will be legislated out of existence and I'm not sure how they strike a good balance there. I also think Facebook in particular could do better but doesn't want to in order to keep engagement up - yet they want the good PR they can get for banning hate speech. They're trying to have it both ways and are awful. That's still different than Parler where the entire reason it exists is to push radical viewpoints without governance.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > I'm fine with banning apps that permit organizing violent insurrection in response to independently certified elections. First of all, Trump was a sitting President. Second of all, the left/DNC spent 8 months burning American downtowns, which is the real "violent insurrection." Third, there were no "independently certified elections," unless you mean the one that was overturned during the 2020 election, and the one in 2021.
- elastolin 6y ago
  > I'm okay with deplatforming, but only when it suits me Jesus, just shut the fuck up.
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account. You can't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- simion314 6y ago
  How do you draw the line exactly? What if someone used FB or the official Appole/Google email/chat apps to start a revolution in some country? For illegal stuff you have laws and examples, for this stuff you need to guess what Silicon Valley does not like and censor your content just in case. For the case you mention, do you think it helped? As I said I am not from US so I have no idea if the were any effects.
  - unityByFreedom 6y ago
    It's not me who draws the line and that's the point. Government/the public isn't involved. The companies themselves draw the line.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Still claiming it was a “violent insurrection”, even when experts have been clear this wasn’t one (https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/06/why-this-wasnt-a-coup-capitol-2020-election-trump/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/06/why-this-wasnt-a-coup-c...)? A handful of people stormed the Capitol, and nearly none of them were there to stage an “insurrection”. Most were just there as protesters who got carried away. There were also tens of thousands more in DC participating in rallies and protests without ever having stormed the Capitol as well. Also, this was far from the only time protesters invaded the Capitol. It was the only time so much attention was given to it by news media and social media alike, however. I’m sure you spoke up when hundreds stormed the Capitol during Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings, where hundreds were arrested, correct (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/405500-212-protesters-total-arrested-during-kavanaugh-hearings https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/405500-212-protesters-to...)? As for Parler - with millions of users, almost 100% of content being completely fine, and with more of the riot being planned on Facebook, banning Parler was simply an ideological power move by left biased tech companies who have no respect for free speech principles.
- tsdlts 6y ago
  Very good, let's petition to ban signal. In fact, let's ban encryption altogether as such a technology can be used to coordinate terrorist attacks.
  - unityByFreedom 6y ago
    No, that's government level. I'm only fine with private entities choosing to do or not do business with whom they please. If google wants to block apps that use encryption then they can do it. Of course that would destroy their business so they won't.
IndySun 6y ago
Simion314, If you would indulge another non-political poster. Playing devils advocate with and exploring your ps... >some big corporation What about a small one? >lock you out, decide what you read, apps you install or brick your application Are these an abuse of power? Illegal? Unethical? Is it their right to do these things to maintain some focus? (The example here is often that one does not want profanity, sexual content, violence content where any children or family are involved - if that is acceptable to you, why not the above?) ps, I also hate it when software won't work without a 'security' handshake.
- simion314 6y ago
  I am for moderating stuff in general. So if you have a forum and want to ban politics or religious topic that is fine IMO. I would also be fine if Google or Apple would ban an application because it does something illegal or it's name/icon/description is offensive and it could "pollute" the store listing. I don't like when the giants try to ban some small applications because of user generated content but they never ban YouTube(remember the issues with pedos?) The issue I have with the giants is that this is not a "Free market", you have only 2 players that are smart enough to correctly play the "prisoner dilemma" so both win. Maybe in that political case they were right to ban that application but is still uncomfortable to know that 99% of mobile market is censored by the 2 giants. Conclusion: Moderating content on your website is fine, but banning legal apps or websites because should not be easy, there should be a police,judge or some other official request behind it at least.
  - IndySun 6y ago
    Thank you. We disagree on little. However one should be careful with broad terms like' offence'. To whom do you allocate the task of deciding for you what is offensive, is the tricky part. The silicon corporates do move the goalposts to suit. Governments are not fair all the time. Where you are born impacts hugely on your life. And the laughably named 'free market' has the same flaws. All of these issues we are discussing will be alleviated, though not eradicated (impossible), the more we move towards an equal and fairer society.
- 6y ago

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

My guess: when it was about banning right-wing focused apps like Gab.