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Or you can just make a web app. Unless you are doing games or anything requiring lower-level hardware access, like a bluetooth scanner or something.

arkitaip 6y ago
Why stop there? Web apps can trivially be taken down if your domain registrar, hosting provider, datacenter partner or payment solution decides to kick you out.
- nguyenkien 6y ago
  There many hosting provider, datacenter, payment gatway to choose from. But just 2 appstore to use (technically android can have as many as you want, but how many pp use 3rd store right now?)
  - em-bee 6y ago
    compare to china where google is blocked, which as a result has dozens of competing appstores. each phone brand has their own, and then some. i do believe that if google didn't have an appstore that it forces android licensees to use, then we would have a similar variety of appstores world wide.
  - derekp7 6y ago
    The problem I have with third party app stores is you have to open up permissions to install any third-party app -- you can't just say "Trust apps from the following app stores" (at least that I've found, although it has been a while since the last time I looked into it).
- wheresmycraisin 6y ago
  You have alternatives for those things though, in other countries if necessary. Ok, ok, accepting payments is hard -- if you're getting booted from your processors because, say, you're in a controversial industry, you might have to get creative (look at the US cannabis industry for such creativity).
bawolff 6y ago
You mean that thing which google controls 90% of the rendering engines for? [Yes, they have much less power, but its not exactly independence either]
- wheresmycraisin 6y ago
  Let's not go into hypotheticals about what might happen if google started... what, inserting spyware, basically, into their own open source browser engine?
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    Chrome and even Firefox have already begun political policing of their browsers (https://reclaimthenet.org/google-chrome-web-store-bans-dissenter-extension/ https://reclaimthenet.org/google-chrome-web-store-bans-disse...). The next step seems like it’ll be forced curation of the web or blocking of IP addresses, since they’re already knocking on that door.
    - wheresmycraisin 6y ago
      They banned a sleazy-looking extension from their extension stores. That's a far cry from "forced curation of the web or blocking of IP addresses". And, if that happens? Someone will just fork the browser.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    The hypothetical is that they remove support for part of a web standard and screw over your app. Which they certainly have done in the past (albeit,usually for really good reason. Google is a bit in a damned if you do damned if you dont position)
p49k 6y ago
Users, for the most part, don't want web apps and won't use them. It's an unrealistic stance.
- wheresmycraisin 6y ago
  Actually, users, for the most part, don't want to install apps.
  - p49k 6y ago
    Maybe HN users, but an increasingly overwhelming percentage of the general population prefers to download an app to do something instead of using a mobile website.
    - wheresmycraisin 6y ago
      Various industry surveys, like the one from comscore in 2019 suggest otherwise. IIRC it found that most American phone owners install only 1-2 new apps per year. I think they would've gone to more new websites than that.
      - p49k 6y ago
        That study doesn't imply what you suggest. Yes, most Americans install 1-2 apps per year: Facebook, Instagram and similar, and that's all they ever use. That segment of the population doesn't use the mobile web either; they spend all of their time in 1-2 walled gardens and you're not going to reach them with an app or website.
    - derekp7 6y ago
      Couldn't you create a web-first app, then have the "app" that appears in the app just install a launcher icon that launches a browser window pointing to your website? This method (PWA?) I believe also lets you launch the browser without the browser control bar at the top (so it appears as a local app). The best part of this is even if your app gets banned from the app store, it is still accessible to anyone that wants to bookmark your URL, and I believe that users can also install the local PWA icon without having to go through an app store (I may be wrong about that, just starting to learn about PWAs and what is currently possible, and what is coming up).
sneak 6y ago
Webapps don't show up on the home screen, can't be targets of share pane actions, can't access contacts, can't send push notifications.
- GormanFletcher 6y ago
  The current state of webapps on Android has made good progress on these issues: Supported on all major Android browsers: - Progressive Web Apps can be added to your home screen - Web Push lets web apps receive push notifications (Brave's implementation is broken, but they try to support the feature) Experimental APIs supported by Chrome for Android: - Web Share Target API, which lets homescreen'd web apps receive shares from other apps (the share pane makes no distinction between sharing to a web app or a native app) - Contacts APIs to read the user's contacts list I think PWA's competitiveness will get a lot better once other browsers adopt the Web Share Target (or something like it), but I'm skeptical that they'll really take off as long as Apple continues hold off on implementing features that would make PWAs competitive with native apps.

arkitaip 6y ago

Why stop there? Web apps can trivially be taken down if your domain registrar, hosting provider, datacenter partner or payment solution decides to kick you out.

nguyenkien 6y ago
There many hosting provider, datacenter, payment gatway to choose from. But just 2 appstore to use (technically android can have as many as you want, but how many pp use 3rd store right now?)
- em-bee 6y ago
  compare to china where google is blocked, which as a result has dozens of competing appstores. each phone brand has their own, and then some. i do believe that if google didn't have an appstore that it forces android licensees to use, then we would have a similar variety of appstores world wide.
- derekp7 6y ago
  The problem I have with third party app stores is you have to open up permissions to install any third-party app -- you can't just say "Trust apps from the following app stores" (at least that I've found, although it has been a while since the last time I looked into it).
wheresmycraisin 6y ago
You have alternatives for those things though, in other countries if necessary. Ok, ok, accepting payments is hard -- if you're getting booted from your processors because, say, you're in a controversial industry, you might have to get creative (look at the US cannabis industry for such creativity).

bawolff 6y ago

You mean that thing which google controls 90% of the rendering engines for? [Yes, they have much less power, but its not exactly independence either]

wheresmycraisin 6y ago
Let's not go into hypotheticals about what might happen if google started... what, inserting spyware, basically, into their own open source browser engine?
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  Chrome and even Firefox have already begun political policing of their browsers (https://reclaimthenet.org/google-chrome-web-store-bans-dissenter-extension/ https://reclaimthenet.org/google-chrome-web-store-bans-disse...). The next step seems like it’ll be forced curation of the web or blocking of IP addresses, since they’re already knocking on that door.
  - wheresmycraisin 6y ago
    They banned a sleazy-looking extension from their extension stores. That's a far cry from "forced curation of the web or blocking of IP addresses". And, if that happens? Someone will just fork the browser.
- bawolff 6y ago
  The hypothetical is that they remove support for part of a web standard and screw over your app. Which they certainly have done in the past (albeit,usually for really good reason. Google is a bit in a damned if you do damned if you dont position)

p49k 6y ago

Users, for the most part, don't want web apps and won't use them. It's an unrealistic stance.

wheresmycraisin 6y ago
Actually, users, for the most part, don't want to install apps.
- p49k 6y ago
  Maybe HN users, but an increasingly overwhelming percentage of the general population prefers to download an app to do something instead of using a mobile website.
  - wheresmycraisin 6y ago
    Various industry surveys, like the one from comscore in 2019 suggest otherwise. IIRC it found that most American phone owners install only 1-2 new apps per year. I think they would've gone to more new websites than that.
    - p49k 6y ago
      That study doesn't imply what you suggest. Yes, most Americans install 1-2 apps per year: Facebook, Instagram and similar, and that's all they ever use. That segment of the population doesn't use the mobile web either; they spend all of their time in 1-2 walled gardens and you're not going to reach them with an app or website.
  - derekp7 6y ago
    Couldn't you create a web-first app, then have the "app" that appears in the app just install a launcher icon that launches a browser window pointing to your website? This method (PWA?) I believe also lets you launch the browser without the browser control bar at the top (so it appears as a local app). The best part of this is even if your app gets banned from the app store, it is still accessible to anyone that wants to bookmark your URL, and I believe that users can also install the local PWA icon without having to go through an app store (I may be wrong about that, just starting to learn about PWAs and what is currently possible, and what is coming up).

sneak 6y ago

Webapps don't show up on the home screen, can't be targets of share pane actions, can't access contacts, can't send push notifications.

GormanFletcher 6y ago
The current state of webapps on Android has made good progress on these issues: Supported on all major Android browsers: - Progressive Web Apps can be added to your home screen - Web Push lets web apps receive push notifications (Brave's implementation is broken, but they try to support the feature) Experimental APIs supported by Chrome for Android: - Web Share Target API, which lets homescreen'd web apps receive shares from other apps (the share pane makes no distinction between sharing to a web app or a native app) - Contacts APIs to read the user's contacts list I think PWA's competitiveness will get a lot better once other browsers adopt the Web Share Target (or something like it), but I'm skeptical that they'll really take off as long as Apple continues hold off on implementing features that would make PWAs competitive with native apps.