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> When the FBI says it’s “going dark” because it can’t beat encryption, what it’s really asking for is a method of breaking in that’s cheaper, easier The way I

> When the FBI says it’s “going dark” because it can’t beat encryption, what it’s really asking for is a method of breaking in that’s cheaper, easier The way I see it, authorities all over have zero difficulty in breaking into devices (deus ex Cellebrite). I always believe that any password we use (computers, phones, etc.) is only to protect us against the common criminal. Someone who will take your phone, and a strong PIN/password will only stop them from using your Apple/Android-Pay, read your emails, read your messages, etc. If the gov wants to get something from you, then the gov will take something from you. "Give up your password or go to jail: Police push legal boundaries to get into cellphones" (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/give-your-password-or-go-jail-police-push-legal-boundaries-n1014266 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/give-your-password-or-g...) Also the Security by XKCD. (https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/) (in non-democratic countries, or really dark scenarios). Also.. let's be honest, when the "default" on all devices is to "sync all with Google/Apple cloud", then there is minimal need to even alert someone to the fact that you need their data (e.g. by arresting them, confiscating their devices, etc.) Just warrant+gag to Apple/Google/Dropbox/etc. and you got their "latest" backup easy-peasy.

XorNot 6y ago
App updates has always struck me as the big one. I can't turn them off, I can't easily validate them, and there's little preventing an update just for my device being shipped.
- biafra 6y ago
  Whether you can turn them off depends on your operating system. Most of them allow you to turn them off. What are you using? And if it really bothers you, why don't you switch?
  - HenryBemis 6y ago
    The point XorNot made (and I agree) is that "it is switched on by default". And then you need to go to 5 different settings to switch them off (OS update, App update, iCloud login, iCloud sync of Backup-StockApps-Messages-etc). The "welcome" should not be "all your data are belong to us". It should be "Hi, iCloud-Y/N, AutoUpdateOS-Y/N, Backup Message-Y/N, Backup Notes-Y/N, etc.). I get it that for MANY reasons Apple wants everyone to run the latest OS/Apps versions, but.... did they ASK me? Exiting their ecosystem is painful. Apple/Google rely on this. There are plenty of discussions on 'how to exit' and alternatives, but this is HN. The average HN-er is not exactly the same as the average smartphone user.
    - XorNot 6y ago
      Honestly it's more that there's no reason to think any of those buttons do what they say they do. Why should they? I haven't inspected the source code which controls them, I didn't build the firmware images which go on my devices. Without reproducible builds from multiple sources, how can we be sure of anything? If there's a service we have a desperate need for, it's a change in ecosystem priorities that core functionality - OS's, chipsets, etc. - are open source, and updates go out as inspectable patches which get pulled into reproducible build farms and bittorrented out to users. Start with C compilers and work your way outward from there, but I should be able to cryptographically prove to myself that the firmware update going into my Android phone was independently reproducible from public source code from users in a few different nations.
- scruffyherder 6y ago
  Without fail I was always getting carrier “upgrades” before big protests and police sweeps. It became my warning signal. Once the virus hit the news in Wuhan, and the protests started to dial down the updates got fewer and fewer. And with the closing of the border I haven’t gotten a carrier upgrade in months. As part of the 2 million + crowd I know I’m tracked like a rat. But that’s how cellphones work
- sneak 6y ago
  You can indeed turn them off, at least on mobile devices. Desktop apps are much worse in this regard. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4578 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4578 https://github.com/bitwarden/desktop/issues/552 https://github.com/bitwarden/desktop/issues/552
peteretep 6y ago
> Just warrant+gag And ... that’s probably ok? The people are not meant to be protected against all searches, only warrantless search.
- HenryBemis 6y ago
  >And ... that’s probably ok 1000% ok. Caveat: the warrant is legit and they (judges/appropriate authorities per country) do their job right and don't have 100 pre-printed approvals (a la blank cheque) lying around and just hand them over to any policeman and/or torturer walks in asking for one. (Also) I am thinking the people in China, Iran, Turkey, etc. where people dissapear in the middle of the night (even public figures). Do we not care for those 1.5bn people because they are outside the EU, USA, CA, AUS, NZ, etc? My initial point is that one cannot hide from the State. One can only hide their data from the common criminal.

XorNot 6y ago

App updates has always struck me as the big one. I can't turn them off, I can't easily validate them, and there's little preventing an update just for my device being shipped.

biafra 6y ago
Whether you can turn them off depends on your operating system. Most of them allow you to turn them off. What are you using? And if it really bothers you, why don't you switch?
- HenryBemis 6y ago
  The point XorNot made (and I agree) is that "it is switched on by default". And then you need to go to 5 different settings to switch them off (OS update, App update, iCloud login, iCloud sync of Backup-StockApps-Messages-etc). The "welcome" should not be "all your data are belong to us". It should be "Hi, iCloud-Y/N, AutoUpdateOS-Y/N, Backup Message-Y/N, Backup Notes-Y/N, etc.). I get it that for MANY reasons Apple wants everyone to run the latest OS/Apps versions, but.... did they ASK me? Exiting their ecosystem is painful. Apple/Google rely on this. There are plenty of discussions on 'how to exit' and alternatives, but this is HN. The average HN-er is not exactly the same as the average smartphone user.
  - XorNot 6y ago
    Honestly it's more that there's no reason to think any of those buttons do what they say they do. Why should they? I haven't inspected the source code which controls them, I didn't build the firmware images which go on my devices. Without reproducible builds from multiple sources, how can we be sure of anything? If there's a service we have a desperate need for, it's a change in ecosystem priorities that core functionality - OS's, chipsets, etc. - are open source, and updates go out as inspectable patches which get pulled into reproducible build farms and bittorrented out to users. Start with C compilers and work your way outward from there, but I should be able to cryptographically prove to myself that the firmware update going into my Android phone was independently reproducible from public source code from users in a few different nations.
scruffyherder 6y ago
Without fail I was always getting carrier “upgrades” before big protests and police sweeps. It became my warning signal. Once the virus hit the news in Wuhan, and the protests started to dial down the updates got fewer and fewer. And with the closing of the border I haven’t gotten a carrier upgrade in months. As part of the 2 million + crowd I know I’m tracked like a rat. But that’s how cellphones work
sneak 6y ago
You can indeed turn them off, at least on mobile devices. Desktop apps are much worse in this regard. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4578 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4578 https://github.com/bitwarden/desktop/issues/552 https://github.com/bitwarden/desktop/issues/552

peteretep 6y ago

> Just warrant+gag And ... that’s probably ok? The people are not meant to be protected against all searches, only warrantless search.

HenryBemis 6y ago
>And ... that’s probably ok 1000% ok. Caveat: the warrant is legit and they (judges/appropriate authorities per country) do their job right and don't have 100 pre-printed approvals (a la blank cheque) lying around and just hand them over to any policeman and/or torturer walks in asking for one. (Also) I am thinking the people in China, Iran, Turkey, etc. where people dissapear in the middle of the night (even public figures). Do we not care for those 1.5bn people because they are outside the EU, USA, CA, AUS, NZ, etc? My initial point is that one cannot hide from the State. One can only hide their data from the common criminal.