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Getting an MBA does not make you not-an-engineer. From the article [1] you linked, "He earned a Bachelor of Science in industrial engineering". Also, the artic

by anxrn 6y ago

Getting an MBA does not make you not-an-engineer. From the article [1] you linked, "He earned a Bachelor of Science in industrial engineering". Also, the article is referring to founding CEOs, and hence referring to Page/Brin and Jobs/Wozniak, not Pichai and Cook.

sebmellen 6y ago
Yeah, but that doesn't make him a software engineer. And he never practiced as an engineer either [0]. I know plenty of people with physics degrees who ended up in accounting and people with arts degrees who ended up in software. Your degree doesn't determine your career or what you actually end up doing. [0]: From Cook's Wikipedia article: After graduating from Auburn University, Cook spent 12 years in IBM's personal computer business, ultimately serving as the director of North American fulfillment. Also, needless to say, Jobs was not a software engineer either.
- anxrn 6y ago
  Sorry to have to ask this, but did you read the article? It explicitly addresses this. > *Wozniak obtained a master’s in computer science in 1987 and does code. Though Jobs was brilliant and technically savvy, Jobs clearly didn’t professionally code; he did contribute to creative and technical designs
  - xmprt 6y ago
    Did Wozniak ever hold the title of CEO?
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    Yes, I did, which is why I find it so disingenuous. I mean, looking at their chart, 7/10 do not have software engineer CEOs. And Wozniak was never CEO of Apple. "Contributing to creative and technical designs" does not make you a software engineer. LOL. Might as well give my grandmother the moniker as well (she's contributed to some creative designs for my startup). -- Also, it's a terribly written article. I mean, this is content-marketing level, https://shortlyai.com https://shortlyai.com type of stuff. > Conversely, traditional CEOs are regularly incentivized and seduced into pleasing financial markets by having higher returns in the near term. This typically overhyped mission of “improved earnings” occasionally results in companies pursuing unsustainable schemes that are focused on boosting quarterly profits (liquid value). Software engineer CEOs do this exact same thing, probably more so! (Mostly as an artifact of their Silicon Valley VC investors pumping them into SPACs and IPOs to get a fat payday.) They paint a picture of non-software-engineer CEOs as idiots, which is completely idiotic. Most successful companies throughout history have not been founded by software engineers. This is a recent phenomenon and the article's author(s) have no idea what they're talking about.
    - Number157 6y ago
      > And Wozniak was never CEO of Apple. In terms of title? No. In terms of function? Well sure, he's a co-founder.
      - Grustaf 6y ago
        Co-founder has nothing to do with CEO. Clearly Wozniak was the technical co-founder, not the business co-founder. I have never seen any hint of him being anything but terrible at business.
        Number157 6y ago
        > Co-founder has nothing to do with CEO. In a small company, every person has enough influence to rival the CEO and every role overlaps enough that the distinction given by titles is meaningless inside the company. Mainly the distinction given by titles determines how people market themselves outside the company where the dividing roles will appear clear for marketing purposes, which they are not in reality.
- mav3rick 6y ago
  I think cracking the JEE at that time was clearly correlated to him being smart. He was obviously going to be successful wherever he went.
- Number157 6y ago
  > Also, needless to say, Jobs was not a software engineer either. The article actually refers to Jobs & Wozniak.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    Woz was a cofounder, not a CEO.
arethuza 6y ago
"Getting an MBA does not make you not-an-engineer." My view having known quite a few engineers who got MBAs (outside of the software world) is that it very much marked a point where people had decided they wanted to stop being a practising engineer and wanted to be someone who managed practising engineers (directly or indirectly).
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  My view as a developer with an MBA is that I got it because the hardest problems I was facing were people/political/business problems rather than tech problems. I was already managing a team before I got it. After I got it I've had a mix of roles as both engineer and manager. I didn't intend to switch track, it's more about being better at both tracks.

by anxrn 6y ago

sebmellen 6y ago

Yeah, but that doesn't make him a software engineer. And he never practiced as an engineer either [0]. I know plenty of people with physics degrees who ended up in accounting and people with arts degrees who ended up in software. Your degree doesn't determine your career or what you actually end up doing. [0]: From Cook's Wikipedia article: After graduating from Auburn University, Cook spent 12 years in IBM's personal computer business, ultimately serving as the director of North American fulfillment. Also, needless to say, Jobs was not a software engineer either.

anxrn 6y ago
Sorry to have to ask this, but did you read the article? It explicitly addresses this. > *Wozniak obtained a master’s in computer science in 1987 and does code. Though Jobs was brilliant and technically savvy, Jobs clearly didn’t professionally code; he did contribute to creative and technical designs
- xmprt 6y ago
  Did Wozniak ever hold the title of CEO?
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Yes, I did, which is why I find it so disingenuous. I mean, looking at their chart, 7/10 do not have software engineer CEOs. And Wozniak was never CEO of Apple. "Contributing to creative and technical designs" does not make you a software engineer. LOL. Might as well give my grandmother the moniker as well (she's contributed to some creative designs for my startup). -- Also, it's a terribly written article. I mean, this is content-marketing level, https://shortlyai.com https://shortlyai.com type of stuff. > Conversely, traditional CEOs are regularly incentivized and seduced into pleasing financial markets by having higher returns in the near term. This typically overhyped mission of “improved earnings” occasionally results in companies pursuing unsustainable schemes that are focused on boosting quarterly profits (liquid value). Software engineer CEOs do this exact same thing, probably more so! (Mostly as an artifact of their Silicon Valley VC investors pumping them into SPACs and IPOs to get a fat payday.) They paint a picture of non-software-engineer CEOs as idiots, which is completely idiotic. Most successful companies throughout history have not been founded by software engineers. This is a recent phenomenon and the article's author(s) have no idea what they're talking about.
  - Number157 6y ago
    > And Wozniak was never CEO of Apple. In terms of title? No. In terms of function? Well sure, he's a co-founder.
    - Grustaf 6y ago
      Co-founder has nothing to do with CEO. Clearly Wozniak was the technical co-founder, not the business co-founder. I have never seen any hint of him being anything but terrible at business.
      - Number157 6y ago
        > Co-founder has nothing to do with CEO. In a small company, every person has enough influence to rival the CEO and every role overlaps enough that the distinction given by titles is meaningless inside the company. Mainly the distinction given by titles determines how people market themselves outside the company where the dividing roles will appear clear for marketing purposes, which they are not in reality.
mav3rick 6y ago
I think cracking the JEE at that time was clearly correlated to him being smart. He was obviously going to be successful wherever he went.
Number157 6y ago
> Also, needless to say, Jobs was not a software engineer either. The article actually refers to Jobs & Wozniak.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  Woz was a cofounder, not a CEO.

arethuza 6y ago

"Getting an MBA does not make you not-an-engineer." My view having known quite a few engineers who got MBAs (outside of the software world) is that it very much marked a point where people had decided they wanted to stop being a practising engineer and wanted to be someone who managed practising engineers (directly or indirectly).

marcus_holmes 6y ago
My view as a developer with an MBA is that I got it because the hardest problems I was facing were people/political/business problems rather than tech problems. I was already managing a team before I got it. After I got it I've had a mix of roles as both engineer and manager. I didn't intend to switch track, it's more about being better at both tracks.