5 ms·

Starlink is SpaceX's way of guaranteeing SpaceX has a launch client. It increases the number of launches they make, and drives down the cost per launch, both fo

Starlink is SpaceX's way of guaranteeing SpaceX has a launch client. It increases the number of launches they make, and drives down the cost per launch, both for themselves and for their other customers. They are creating a business model which is both profitable and drives profits to their launch business. This is similar to the synergy Amazon's online store and AWS have with each other. If SpaceX has room on a launch vehicle or an empty launch vehicle, they stuff it with Starlink satellites. Since Starlink will require constant refreshes, SpaceX has a constant client, it becomes far easier for them to offer smaller payloads at good rates. This is SpaceX's way of commoditizing launches and keeping their launch service running regularly. It's extremely clever use of complimentary resources.

PostThisTooFast 6y ago
Unfortunately it's also littering the sky with a shitload of eventual junk, and immediate astronomical blight.
- mlindner 6y ago
  Continuing to say it doesn't make it true. They deorbit the satellites that stop working and their reliability thus far has been high other than the first two or three launches which had a higher failure rate. Even if they do fail completely and become uncontrollable, they're designed to deorbit within 5 years from operational altitude. They're relatively low mass and have very large solar panels for their size.
systemvoltage 6y ago
Why is this special to Amazon and SpaceX? Literally every vertical integrated company does what you said. That's the definition of vertical integration.
- andrewljohnson 6y ago
  Vertically integrating space logistics with space products is pretty cool.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    Definitely!
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  A vertically integrated company owns increasing amounts of production of their end product. Apple is vertically integrated, they have products where they make the CPU, the device, the OS, and retail the devices. But ultimately they only sell the end products. If Apple were to start selling CPUs, you could argue that they had a similar model, but they don't (and won't because their CPUs are a competitive advantage). What Amazon and SpaceX are doing isn't vertical integration in the classic sense. While Amazon sells AWS, they also have an online retail platform. Their retail platform consumes AWS services. Similarly, SpaceX is both the supplier of launch services and the consumer of launch services. Amazon's retail operations are profitable, but by being their own best customer, they help Amazon drive profitability and demand for AWS.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    Flywheel integration is probably a better term. I.e. not vertically integrating for the supply of your current product, but in such a way that demand for both is increased.
    - scsilver 6y ago
      Ive heard fly wheel in regards to tech company strategy 3 times in a month, was there a conference I wasnt invited to?
      - grzm 6y ago
        It's not unlikely you're experiencing the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion
      - jeffparsons 6y ago
        Jeff Bezos talks about it a lot. So it makes sense it would come up in the context of similarities between SpaceX's and Amazon's strategies.
      - xmprt 6y ago
        Same here. I'm guessing it's a term that's come up in a few popular posts here (especially considering Jeff Bezos left Amazon a few weeks ago and he talks about it a lot in his book and in general) and is not part of the vernacular of commenters here. Similar idea for other circles that you might have heard it in.
- elihu 6y ago
  What's different is that the entire commercial space launch business isn't very big. I think it's been somewhere in the ballpark of a couple dozen launches a year. SpaceX could conceivably satisfy it just by building one rocket and flying it over and over again. (Granted they don't have upper stage re-usability yet, and the Falcon 9 boosters have a limited lifespan, but they're working to get there with Starship.) So, if they want to have a viable business that involves a large fleet of reusable rockets they need to become their own customer to make sure the rockets don't just sit idle. Maybe this sort of thing happens all the time with new companies in new markets. The space launch market though has been around for a long time. To me it seems unusual for an industry that's been around for half a century or so to not be big enough to absorb the excess capacity of a newcomer.
de6u99er 6y ago
Yes, and they reuse the rockets more often than they would do with just external customers while proving to them that it's safe to use the same rockets uo to 10 times. I love how undoectacular their flights have become, and wonder how long it will take until they stop commenting their live streams. I still watch them, but I started to skip forward or just listen to it in the background while programming.
- inetknght 6y ago
  > undoectacular Your typo of `unspectacular` is almost as spectacular as a Starlink mission has become.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Glad for the decode on that typo. I thought it was some new word.
willis936 6y ago
If they have empty space on payloads they also sell it for a (very reasonable) 1 million USD. https://youtu.be/DB1Aii8NoC0 https://youtu.be/DB1Aii8NoC0
- cartoonfoxes 6y ago
  At that price it makes me wonder if there's a market in vanity satellites for the wealthy.
  - CyanBird 6y ago
    In Planetes an old anime series of hard scifi which I loved there is an episode of exactly that, the protagonists need to recover a "space burial" coffin launched into deep space which accidentally after decades does a flyby of low earth orbit So yeah, maybe, look forward to billionaires launching their dead bodies into space, after all that tesla car is still somewhere out there floating about heh
    - sand500 6y ago
      +1 Planetes is amazing. It is not available on streaming service in the US though. If someone has $100k lying around, they should aquire US distribution rights. Could probably make it back easily if it gets a million views an episode on YouTube.
neartheplain 6y ago
AWS and the Amazon.com store may have synergy now, but for many years the store was its own thing. Amazon.com only finished migrating off Oracle DB in 2019: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/migration-complete-amazons-consumer-business-just-turned-off-its-final-oracle-database/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/migration-complete-amazons-...
- laluser 6y ago
  The last Oracle DB migration was just for one part of internal retail operation that was particularly difficult or just needed more resources. Most of retail had been using AWS for quite some time before that (earlier than 2009). Source: worked there and knew the team that did that migration.

PostThisTooFast 6y ago

Unfortunately it's also littering the sky with a shitload of eventual junk, and immediate astronomical blight.

mlindner 6y ago
Continuing to say it doesn't make it true. They deorbit the satellites that stop working and their reliability thus far has been high other than the first two or three launches which had a higher failure rate. Even if they do fail completely and become uncontrollable, they're designed to deorbit within 5 years from operational altitude. They're relatively low mass and have very large solar panels for their size.

systemvoltage 6y ago

Why is this special to Amazon and SpaceX? Literally every vertical integrated company does what you said. That's the definition of vertical integration.

andrewljohnson 6y ago
Vertically integrating space logistics with space products is pretty cool.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Definitely!
ogre_codes 6y ago
A vertically integrated company owns increasing amounts of production of their end product. Apple is vertically integrated, they have products where they make the CPU, the device, the OS, and retail the devices. But ultimately they only sell the end products. If Apple were to start selling CPUs, you could argue that they had a similar model, but they don't (and won't because their CPUs are a competitive advantage). What Amazon and SpaceX are doing isn't vertical integration in the classic sense. While Amazon sells AWS, they also have an online retail platform. Their retail platform consumes AWS services. Similarly, SpaceX is both the supplier of launch services and the consumer of launch services. Amazon's retail operations are profitable, but by being their own best customer, they help Amazon drive profitability and demand for AWS.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  Flywheel integration is probably a better term. I.e. not vertically integrating for the supply of your current product, but in such a way that demand for both is increased.
  - scsilver 6y ago
    Ive heard fly wheel in regards to tech company strategy 3 times in a month, was there a conference I wasnt invited to?
    - grzm 6y ago
      It's not unlikely you're experiencing the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion
    - jeffparsons 6y ago
      Jeff Bezos talks about it a lot. So it makes sense it would come up in the context of similarities between SpaceX's and Amazon's strategies.
    - xmprt 6y ago
      Same here. I'm guessing it's a term that's come up in a few popular posts here (especially considering Jeff Bezos left Amazon a few weeks ago and he talks about it a lot in his book and in general) and is not part of the vernacular of commenters here. Similar idea for other circles that you might have heard it in.
elihu 6y ago
What's different is that the entire commercial space launch business isn't very big. I think it's been somewhere in the ballpark of a couple dozen launches a year. SpaceX could conceivably satisfy it just by building one rocket and flying it over and over again. (Granted they don't have upper stage re-usability yet, and the Falcon 9 boosters have a limited lifespan, but they're working to get there with Starship.) So, if they want to have a viable business that involves a large fleet of reusable rockets they need to become their own customer to make sure the rockets don't just sit idle. Maybe this sort of thing happens all the time with new companies in new markets. The space launch market though has been around for a long time. To me it seems unusual for an industry that's been around for half a century or so to not be big enough to absorb the excess capacity of a newcomer.

de6u99er 6y ago

Yes, and they reuse the rockets more often than they would do with just external customers while proving to them that it's safe to use the same rockets uo to 10 times. I love how undoectacular their flights have become, and wonder how long it will take until they stop commenting their live streams. I still watch them, but I started to skip forward or just listen to it in the background while programming.

inetknght 6y ago
> undoectacular Your typo of `unspectacular` is almost as spectacular as a Starlink mission has become.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Glad for the decode on that typo. I thought it was some new word.

willis936 6y ago

If they have empty space on payloads they also sell it for a (very reasonable) 1 million USD. https://youtu.be/DB1Aii8NoC0 https://youtu.be/DB1Aii8NoC0

cartoonfoxes 6y ago
At that price it makes me wonder if there's a market in vanity satellites for the wealthy.
- CyanBird 6y ago
  In Planetes an old anime series of hard scifi which I loved there is an episode of exactly that, the protagonists need to recover a "space burial" coffin launched into deep space which accidentally after decades does a flyby of low earth orbit So yeah, maybe, look forward to billionaires launching their dead bodies into space, after all that tesla car is still somewhere out there floating about heh
  - sand500 6y ago
    +1 Planetes is amazing. It is not available on streaming service in the US though. If someone has $100k lying around, they should aquire US distribution rights. Could probably make it back easily if it gets a million views an episode on YouTube.

neartheplain 6y ago

AWS and the Amazon.com store may have synergy now, but for many years the store was its own thing. Amazon.com only finished migrating off Oracle DB in 2019: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/migration-complete-amazons-consumer-business-just-turned-off-its-final-oracle-database/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/migration-complete-amazons-...

laluser 6y ago
The last Oracle DB migration was just for one part of internal retail operation that was particularly difficult or just needed more resources. Most of retail had been using AWS for quite some time before that (earlier than 2009). Source: worked there and knew the team that did that migration.