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I cannot understand how anyone would prefer an enormous grey concrete building with a large exclusion zone and large cooling towers blocking the skyline, to oth

I cannot understand how anyone would prefer an enormous grey concrete building with a large exclusion zone and large cooling towers blocking the skyline, to otherwise untouched natural or agricultural landscape dotted with wind turbines. Wind turbines allow you to enjoy more of the countryside because they take up very little space (you can walk around them). Furthermore, they seem to be quieter: https://youtu.be/zKgN2G9d0dc https://youtu.be/zKgN2G9d0dc https://youtu.be/hEMImNj_c44 https://youtu.be/hEMImNj_c44

Hammershaft 6y ago
When you compare the energy densities & land required there is nothing at all enormous about a nuclear plant. It is by far the most space efficient energy source we have (especially once you factor in the upstream footprint of mining & shipping ops)
- vcdimension 6y ago
  That depends on how you measure land use; are you counting the amount of space that becomes otherwise unusable, i.e. the relatively small area occupied by the towers, or the entire area of the fields in which the wind turbines are placed? (which can still be used for other things like agriculture). Personally I think wind turbines look quite majestic, and I like to see them when I go for a drive in the countryside. This isn't directly related to the original question of living next to a nuclear power plant vs a wind farm, but as you mentioned, nuclear power stations require large mining operations to supply them with uranium (you have to mine a lot of land for a small amount of uranium), whereas wind turbines do not. And finally, wind turbines can be erected in the sea where they don't displace any land at all.
  - lazide 6y ago
    You don’t need to mine much land to get very large amounts of uranium - they tend to be underground mines, and produce a truly staggering amount of energy by mass mined. Tailings can be problematic - but even the largest uranium mines have had tiny tailings piles compared to even small wind farm footprints.
  - 2trill2spill 6y ago
    What are you talking about? Wind turbines use substantial sums of copper and that requires mining on a scale much larger than uranium mining.[1] [1]: https://copperalliance.org.uk/knowledge-base/education/education-resources/copper-wind-power-2/ https://copperalliance.org.uk/knowledge-base/education/educa...
    - vcdimension 6y ago
      That link doesn't mention anything about the amount of land required to mine the copper needed for wind turbines. It must be far less than is needed for mining the uranium needed to generate the same power. Think about it; the copper required for the wind turbines is a fixed one-off cost that lasts the lifetime of the turbine, and can be recycled. Nuclear reactors need a continual supply of uranium (about 27 tonnes per year for a 1GWe reactor: http://bit.ly/3voR0II http://bit.ly/3voR0II). Furthermore copper concentrations are typically around 100 times higher than uranium concentrations, which means you need far more uranium ore than copper ore to produce the same weight of metal. Copper has been extracted with relative ease for thousands of years. And then of course, there's all the metals and concrete that are needed to build the nuclear power station.
      - 2trill2spill 6y ago
        > It must be far less than is needed for mining the uranium needed to generate the same power. Think about it; the copper required for the wind turbines is a fixed one-off cost that lasts the lifetime of the turbine, and can be recycled. Nuclear reactors need a continual supply of uranium (about 27 tonnes per year for a 1GWe reactor: http://bit.ly/3voR0II http://bit.ly/3voR0II). A single wind turbine can contain 3.6 tons of copper[1], so using your source for uranium used by a nuclear power plant in one year. Just seven and a half wind turbines use as much copper as a nuclear power plant uses uranium in one year. If you replaced the ~100GW of nuclear power capacity in the United States you would need about 360,000 tons of copper. It would take the current US nuclear fleet ~133 years to use the equivalent amount of uranium. The above also assumes that wind turbines runs at 100% capacity which we all know they won't. So your going to need an additional 2 - 4 times more turbines and copper to replace the current US nuclear fleet. > Furthermore copper concentrations are typically around 100 times higher than uranium concentrations, which means you need far more uranium ore than copper ore to produce the same weight of metal. Copper has been extracted with relative ease for thousands of years. Also copper concentrations in typical copper ore is not 100 time greater than uranium concentrations. Copper concentrations are about 0.6%[2] and uranium is 0.1% - 0.2%[3]. [1]: https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1281864/soaring-copper-prices-drive-wind-farm-crime https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1281864/soaring-cop... [2]: https://www.geo.arizona.edu/sites/www.geo.arizona.edu/files/understanding%20ore%20deposits%20answers%20copy.pdf https://www.geo.arizona.edu/sites/www.geo.arizona.edu/files/... [3]: https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/uranium-factsheet3.pdf https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/uranium-factsheet3.pdf
aksss 6y ago
Large turbine farms are an eyesore, IMO, that dominate entire landscapes. Visually destroying the countryside is probably better than emitting 30 billion tons of CO2 each year, though. But yeah, I think a nuclear plant (as I have seen them) would be preferable, visually, to the enormous turbine farm needed to produce an equivalent amount of power. How much would that be? Avg nuclear plant generates 1GW in the US. Average turbine generates 1.67 MW. So about 600 turbines at about an acre a piece. So a square mile of turbines.
pezezin 6y ago
I grew up 70 km away from a nuclear power plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaraz_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaraz_Nuclear_Power_Plant I have driven passed it many, many times. I can tell you that the visual impact is minimal, and the area around it is "untouched natural or agricultural landscape". Blocking the skyline? How tall do you think the cooling towers are? Wind farms have a much larger visual impact.

Hammershaft 6y ago

When you compare the energy densities & land required there is nothing at all enormous about a nuclear plant. It is by far the most space efficient energy source we have (especially once you factor in the upstream footprint of mining & shipping ops)

vcdimension 6y ago
That depends on how you measure land use; are you counting the amount of space that becomes otherwise unusable, i.e. the relatively small area occupied by the towers, or the entire area of the fields in which the wind turbines are placed? (which can still be used for other things like agriculture). Personally I think wind turbines look quite majestic, and I like to see them when I go for a drive in the countryside. This isn't directly related to the original question of living next to a nuclear power plant vs a wind farm, but as you mentioned, nuclear power stations require large mining operations to supply them with uranium (you have to mine a lot of land for a small amount of uranium), whereas wind turbines do not. And finally, wind turbines can be erected in the sea where they don't displace any land at all.
- lazide 6y ago
  You don’t need to mine much land to get very large amounts of uranium - they tend to be underground mines, and produce a truly staggering amount of energy by mass mined. Tailings can be problematic - but even the largest uranium mines have had tiny tailings piles compared to even small wind farm footprints.
- 2trill2spill 6y ago
  What are you talking about? Wind turbines use substantial sums of copper and that requires mining on a scale much larger than uranium mining.[1] [1]: https://copperalliance.org.uk/knowledge-base/education/education-resources/copper-wind-power-2/ https://copperalliance.org.uk/knowledge-base/education/educa...
  - vcdimension 6y ago
    That link doesn't mention anything about the amount of land required to mine the copper needed for wind turbines. It must be far less than is needed for mining the uranium needed to generate the same power. Think about it; the copper required for the wind turbines is a fixed one-off cost that lasts the lifetime of the turbine, and can be recycled. Nuclear reactors need a continual supply of uranium (about 27 tonnes per year for a 1GWe reactor: http://bit.ly/3voR0II http://bit.ly/3voR0II). Furthermore copper concentrations are typically around 100 times higher than uranium concentrations, which means you need far more uranium ore than copper ore to produce the same weight of metal. Copper has been extracted with relative ease for thousands of years. And then of course, there's all the metals and concrete that are needed to build the nuclear power station.
    - 2trill2spill 6y ago
      > It must be far less than is needed for mining the uranium needed to generate the same power. Think about it; the copper required for the wind turbines is a fixed one-off cost that lasts the lifetime of the turbine, and can be recycled. Nuclear reactors need a continual supply of uranium (about 27 tonnes per year for a 1GWe reactor: http://bit.ly/3voR0II http://bit.ly/3voR0II). A single wind turbine can contain 3.6 tons of copper[1], so using your source for uranium used by a nuclear power plant in one year. Just seven and a half wind turbines use as much copper as a nuclear power plant uses uranium in one year. If you replaced the ~100GW of nuclear power capacity in the United States you would need about 360,000 tons of copper. It would take the current US nuclear fleet ~133 years to use the equivalent amount of uranium. The above also assumes that wind turbines runs at 100% capacity which we all know they won't. So your going to need an additional 2 - 4 times more turbines and copper to replace the current US nuclear fleet. > Furthermore copper concentrations are typically around 100 times higher than uranium concentrations, which means you need far more uranium ore than copper ore to produce the same weight of metal. Copper has been extracted with relative ease for thousands of years. Also copper concentrations in typical copper ore is not 100 time greater than uranium concentrations. Copper concentrations are about 0.6%[2] and uranium is 0.1% - 0.2%[3]. [1]: https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1281864/soaring-copper-prices-drive-wind-farm-crime https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1281864/soaring-cop... [2]: https://www.geo.arizona.edu/sites/www.geo.arizona.edu/files/understanding%20ore%20deposits%20answers%20copy.pdf https://www.geo.arizona.edu/sites/www.geo.arizona.edu/files/... [3]: https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/uranium-factsheet3.pdf https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/uranium-factsheet3.pdf

aksss 6y ago

Large turbine farms are an eyesore, IMO, that dominate entire landscapes. Visually destroying the countryside is probably better than emitting 30 billion tons of CO2 each year, though. But yeah, I think a nuclear plant (as I have seen them) would be preferable, visually, to the enormous turbine farm needed to produce an equivalent amount of power. How much would that be? Avg nuclear plant generates 1GW in the US. Average turbine generates 1.67 MW. So about 600 turbines at about an acre a piece. So a square mile of turbines.

pezezin 6y ago

I grew up 70 km away from a nuclear power plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaraz_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaraz_Nuclear_Power_Plant I have driven passed it many, many times. I can tell you that the visual impact is minimal, and the area around it is "untouched natural or agricultural landscape". Blocking the skyline? How tall do you think the cooling towers are? Wind farms have a much larger visual impact.