3 ms·

Pet peeve: the primer includes Robotech/Harmony Gold (ip squatters) rather than Macross/Studio Nue (actual pioneers). The Macross Design Works series are much b

Pet peeve: the primer includes Robotech/Harmony Gold (ip squatters) rather than Macross/Studio Nue (actual pioneers). The Macross Design Works series are much better artbooks, and actually contains production notes because they _actually produced Macross_.

crooked-v 6y ago
Also, there has been a bunch of follow-on Macross media that shows gradual development of the same mecha model series in-universe, with changes to control schemes, production models of machines that were prototypes in previous series, weird offshoots as an explicit result of the complications of military vehicle development, and so on.
busterarm 6y ago
Ugh. Harmony Gold. This IP battle has been a major hurdle for Battetech as well and probably stifled the success of the game significantly.
- mwkaufma 6y ago
  FASA is as shameful about never crediting creators as HG. Kawamori stated in an interview that they overextended the "package illustration" rights that they bought to Studio Nue mecha: https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/12/10/shoji-kawamori-the-creator-hollywood-copies-but-never-credits/?sh=d9f9ede3a0f9 https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/12/10/shoji-ka...
  - busterarm 6y ago
    I'm not saying FASA is in the right here, but it's HG that sued FASA and continues to do so (harebrained, piranha...) post settlement. In fact, HG claims rights to designs that aren't from anything they licensed, including original FASA designs. HG seems to operate like they own "Mecha" outside of Japan.
    - rl3 6y ago
      If I ever get fabulously wealthy, I'm totally commissioning the construction of a 1:1 scale Mad Cat to be placed across the street from Harmony Gold offices. https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/7e/TRO_3050r.JPG/280px-0b2xikjerczhyqed886nyj5w5u1qvr0.jpg https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/7e/TRO_3050r.JPG/2...
    - mwkaufma 6y ago
      So FASA is a victim here because some of their designs were original derivatives, and not straight-up stolen from Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram?
      - busterarm 6y ago
        Did you even read what I said above? Current holders of FASA's IP are getting sued by HG for designs completely unrelated to those, not just the fixed, non-violating versions of the Unseen mechs but completely unrelated original designs. FASA had a license that they misinterpreted to the point of abuse and they settled that lawsuit ages ago. Harmony Gold tries to sue tons of companies trying to claim infringement on Macross IP for things that are unrelated. For example, Hasbro is the US licensee of the Transformers IP and HG has tried suing them for violating their Macross rights with _Transformers characters_. Harmony Gold and its founder act like criminals. That's not hyperbole either, look up their multi-million dollar tax fraud cases.
        mwkaufma 6y ago
        Skipping the self-answering rhetorical question. It's weird to claim that a studio which flagrantly plagiarizes "also has some redeeming original work." It's not like there's this clear line in the creative process that can partition theft, derivative-but-still-infringing, and "merely inspired" homages. Once you commit the original sin of failing to cite your sources, it's all suspect. I don't think HG should take them to court, but I _do_ wish Big West could. Nobody's stopping Harebrained Schemes or Piranha Games from making that credit. Call me when they do. What's wild is that FASA _used to_ (Studio Nue _produced the Japanese BattleTech handbook_: http://www.gearsonline.net/series/battletech/ http://www.gearsonline.net/series/battletech/), and then changed their tune when it became clear that it was a legal liability to, you know, admit to being plagiarists. BTW Hasbro _did_ market the Macross Strike Valkyrie as a Transformer, "Jetfire."
- _carbyau_ 6y ago
  While I agree with you I still think much "lack of progress" is down to mismanagement. I enjoyed MWO a bit. But after sooo long it didn't go anywhere other than team deathmatch. Really?!? A whole universe of lore. Of heroic stories and legendary characters. Many novels (some better than others admittedly) in the same universe. A whole aerotech and space warfare angle never properly explored. So. Friggin'. Much. They. Could. Do. And they stopped at team deathmatch. The owners strangled the IP with zero ambition and maximum "for the dollar" care... HBS - who seem to be good at the story telling side - seem to be convincing them otherwise but it is well past due. Played Battletech game for many hours. Much of it with mods made by the people who care. I am still waiting to buy the latest Mechwarrior, after it comes out on Steam. And after the modders fix it. Maybe September.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    I was mainly referring to the tabletop game then the IP itself, but fair. MWO is an abomination, but at least was better then MW5. The HBS game is great in a lot of ways and it's a shame that they didn't build it a little bit more flexibly to be a tabletop-replacement. MegaMek is really long in the tooth. The lore is damn near unapproachable at this point if you didn't come up with it alongside the game, especially with today's cultural sensibilities. Much of it boils down to "space racists". I think it's best to treat with broad brush strokes.
    - _carbyau_ 6y ago
      I think the IP future is more computer based these days. Logistics favours computer games unless you enjoy the specific activities involved like painting, terrain modelling etc. I agree that the "nation per house" theme has dated poorly but you may note I was talking more about the characters and stories. Most of which are not house royalty. The story telling potential is there and could allow for such a variety of gameplay experiences the sky is the limit. I have hopes that HBS peoples will gain control of the IP and leave the original owners to do "Stan Lee"-like cameos...

crooked-v 6y ago

Also, there has been a bunch of follow-on Macross media that shows gradual development of the same mecha model series in-universe, with changes to control schemes, production models of machines that were prototypes in previous series, weird offshoots as an explicit result of the complications of military vehicle development, and so on.

busterarm 6y ago

Ugh. Harmony Gold. This IP battle has been a major hurdle for Battetech as well and probably stifled the success of the game significantly.

mwkaufma 6y ago
FASA is as shameful about never crediting creators as HG. Kawamori stated in an interview that they overextended the "package illustration" rights that they bought to Studio Nue mecha: https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/12/10/shoji-kawamori-the-creator-hollywood-copies-but-never-credits/?sh=d9f9ede3a0f9 https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/12/10/shoji-ka...
- busterarm 6y ago
  I'm not saying FASA is in the right here, but it's HG that sued FASA and continues to do so (harebrained, piranha...) post settlement. In fact, HG claims rights to designs that aren't from anything they licensed, including original FASA designs. HG seems to operate like they own "Mecha" outside of Japan.
  - rl3 6y ago
    If I ever get fabulously wealthy, I'm totally commissioning the construction of a 1:1 scale Mad Cat to be placed across the street from Harmony Gold offices. https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/7e/TRO_3050r.JPG/280px-0b2xikjerczhyqed886nyj5w5u1qvr0.jpg https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/7e/TRO_3050r.JPG/2...
  - mwkaufma 6y ago
    So FASA is a victim here because some of their designs were original derivatives, and not straight-up stolen from Macross, Crusher Joe, and Dougram?
    - busterarm 6y ago
      Did you even read what I said above? Current holders of FASA's IP are getting sued by HG for designs completely unrelated to those, not just the fixed, non-violating versions of the Unseen mechs but completely unrelated original designs. FASA had a license that they misinterpreted to the point of abuse and they settled that lawsuit ages ago. Harmony Gold tries to sue tons of companies trying to claim infringement on Macross IP for things that are unrelated. For example, Hasbro is the US licensee of the Transformers IP and HG has tried suing them for violating their Macross rights with _Transformers characters_. Harmony Gold and its founder act like criminals. That's not hyperbole either, look up their multi-million dollar tax fraud cases.
      - mwkaufma 6y ago
        Skipping the self-answering rhetorical question. It's weird to claim that a studio which flagrantly plagiarizes "also has some redeeming original work." It's not like there's this clear line in the creative process that can partition theft, derivative-but-still-infringing, and "merely inspired" homages. Once you commit the original sin of failing to cite your sources, it's all suspect. I don't think HG should take them to court, but I _do_ wish Big West could. Nobody's stopping Harebrained Schemes or Piranha Games from making that credit. Call me when they do. What's wild is that FASA _used to_ (Studio Nue _produced the Japanese BattleTech handbook_: http://www.gearsonline.net/series/battletech/ http://www.gearsonline.net/series/battletech/), and then changed their tune when it became clear that it was a legal liability to, you know, admit to being plagiarists. BTW Hasbro _did_ market the Macross Strike Valkyrie as a Transformer, "Jetfire."
_carbyau_ 6y ago
While I agree with you I still think much "lack of progress" is down to mismanagement. I enjoyed MWO a bit. But after sooo long it didn't go anywhere other than team deathmatch. Really?!? A whole universe of lore. Of heroic stories and legendary characters. Many novels (some better than others admittedly) in the same universe. A whole aerotech and space warfare angle never properly explored. So. Friggin'. Much. They. Could. Do. And they stopped at team deathmatch. The owners strangled the IP with zero ambition and maximum "for the dollar" care... HBS - who seem to be good at the story telling side - seem to be convincing them otherwise but it is well past due. Played Battletech game for many hours. Much of it with mods made by the people who care. I am still waiting to buy the latest Mechwarrior, after it comes out on Steam. And after the modders fix it. Maybe September.
- busterarm 6y ago
  I was mainly referring to the tabletop game then the IP itself, but fair. MWO is an abomination, but at least was better then MW5. The HBS game is great in a lot of ways and it's a shame that they didn't build it a little bit more flexibly to be a tabletop-replacement. MegaMek is really long in the tooth. The lore is damn near unapproachable at this point if you didn't come up with it alongside the game, especially with today's cultural sensibilities. Much of it boils down to "space racists". I think it's best to treat with broad brush strokes.
  - _carbyau_ 6y ago
    I think the IP future is more computer based these days. Logistics favours computer games unless you enjoy the specific activities involved like painting, terrain modelling etc. I agree that the "nation per house" theme has dated poorly but you may note I was talking more about the characters and stories. Most of which are not house royalty. The story telling potential is there and could allow for such a variety of gameplay experiences the sky is the limit. I have hopes that HBS peoples will gain control of the IP and leave the original owners to do "Stan Lee"-like cameos...