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David Deutsch points out that the Spaceship Earth view is a bit inconsistent. Its supporters often claim that we need to preserve Earth as much as possible, and
by eterevsky 6y ago
David Deutsch points out that the Spaceship Earth view is a bit inconsistent. Its supporters often claim that we need to preserve Earth as much as possible, and keep it in a "natural" state. At the same time if you live in a spaceship, you should take charge of it, solve its problems rather than just try to preserve status quo.
- tobr 6y agoThat’s how analogies work. There are limits to how far you can take the comparison, or it wouldn’t be an analogy, just a synonym.
- staunch 6y agoTrue, but this analogy works just fine here. There's no contradiction if you consider the argument of preserving the status quo as total non-sense. Of course you should use a spaceship and its resources to improve the situation of the inhabitants, and to the greatest degree possible. I would argue that we should include all conscious creatures as the inhabitants, not just humans, even if we do decide to prioritize our own species.
- monocasa 6y agoSo I've been binging Stargate lately while working on other stuff, and a common trope they'll fall back on is being trapped on a derelict starship designed by a dead ancient race where the two goals of survival and preservation of the starship's status quo need to strike an appropriate balance. This is because so much of that starship the characters don't have a great grasp on. There's so much lurking in it that they both currently depend on for survival and don't realize, and it contains knowledge and insights that'll help us improve the status quo in the future if we don't destroy it. Yes, survival is always goal one, but massive compromises need to be made for preservation and balancing them is key. I think the metaphor works pretty well for Starship Earth too.
- MayeulC 6y agoInteresting comparison, thanks for pointing this out. You are probably thinking of Stargate Universe, BTW, for which the plot is pretty much that: how much should we try to control that which we don't fully understand yet? Stargate Atlantis has the same tropes to an extent, and some episodes of the earlier SG-1 reflect this as well.
- lukifer 6y ago> take charge of it, solve its problems The metaphor is most strongly correlated with Bucky Fuller [0], who was explicitly advocating exactly that (including but not limited to ecological sustainability). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Manual_for_Spaceship_Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Manual_for_Spaceship...
- simonh 6y agoFor problems, read human generated pollution and mass extinctions. For status quo, read sustainable ecosystem.
- ThomPete 6y agoThrough the use of energy and accumulated knowledge humans have transformed the earth into something much more habitable than it was just 100 year ago.
- simonh 6y agoNot sustainably though, only if you take a relatively short term view. Yes we can support a higher population right now, but we can’t continue our current rate of resource utilisation, or environmental contamination indefinitely. We will need to transition to a long term sustainable civilisation, or by definition our civilisation will not be sustained in the long term. Deutch was not arguing against that.
- ThomPete 6y agoNo one is claiming that, but the solution is through our current setup by finding actual better solutions when they are ready, not forcing them before they are.
- simonh 6y agoWhat does “when they are ready” even mean? I agree with Deutch that Kyoto and a lot of climate change politics is misguided. He’s arguing we should be more adventurous, and I agree.
- ThomPete 6y agoIt means that we don't force it based on political activism. Case in point. Solar power although an unreliable source is great for house owners who want to pay for it on their roof for various uses. It's not great as part of our baseload.