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Zzzz. I have no Bitcoin as I value privacy. I use Monero. That said if you cannot see the value of a strongly secure, decentralised, self sovereign, permissio

Zzzz. I have no Bitcoin as I value privacy. I use Monero. That said if you cannot see the value of a strongly secure, decentralised, self sovereign, permissionless money for the internet then you must live in a place where banking has always been adequate. Many don’t. So it has intrinsic value if it enables a use case not filled by other things. How is this not tacitly obvious.

ctdonath 6y ago
Stamp collecting used to be a big thing, with people willing to spend substantial sums for rare stamps. This value only existed insofar as people had an interest in owning a rare stamp; today, few indeed really see monetary value in a small sticky paper from 1930’s Lithuania or depicting an airplane upside down due to a printing accident. The value existed only because buyer & seller agreed there was value. Ditto Bitcoin, but without the physical novelty. Bitcoin is useful as you say, but only insofar as owner & buyer decide to impute value on that conceptual medium, and don’t get bored and decide to use some other construct. If nobody is willing to buy your Bitcoin, it’s worthless - and an ethereal construct requiring a large network of supporting cooperators (blockchain management) can see such imputed value disappear real quick. ... which is demonstrated perfectly by the fact you use Monero, not Bitcoin.
- billytetrud 6y ago
  Comparing bitcoin to stamps is silly. A rare stamp is valuable because of novelty and entertainment value basically, as you said. Neither of those things give bitcoin value, rather bitcoin gets it's value from it's properties that give it greater utility than alternatives in many situations, and it's network effects.
  - ctdonath 6y ago
    Given there are many alternatives to Bitcoin, and considering how many juggernaut technologies I've seen vanish with hardly a trace, I'll stick with the position that Bitcoin isn't inherently & durably valuable precisely because john_alan (posting above) doesn't use it. There's plenty of other products that do the same, perhaps better, and the only reason Bitcoin is in use now is because it isn't not used.
    - john_alan 6y ago
      It will be a long time (maybe forever) before the masses use Monero or equivalent though...
Bancakes 6y ago
At least USD only goes up. I don't want to sell my old laptop in BTC and have it be worth half as much the next day.

ctdonath 6y ago

Stamp collecting used to be a big thing, with people willing to spend substantial sums for rare stamps. This value only existed insofar as people had an interest in owning a rare stamp; today, few indeed really see monetary value in a small sticky paper from 1930’s Lithuania or depicting an airplane upside down due to a printing accident. The value existed only because buyer & seller agreed there was value. Ditto Bitcoin, but without the physical novelty. Bitcoin is useful as you say, but only insofar as owner & buyer decide to impute value on that conceptual medium, and don’t get bored and decide to use some other construct. If nobody is willing to buy your Bitcoin, it’s worthless - and an ethereal construct requiring a large network of supporting cooperators (blockchain management) can see such imputed value disappear real quick. ... which is demonstrated perfectly by the fact you use Monero, not Bitcoin.

billytetrud 6y ago
Comparing bitcoin to stamps is silly. A rare stamp is valuable because of novelty and entertainment value basically, as you said. Neither of those things give bitcoin value, rather bitcoin gets it's value from it's properties that give it greater utility than alternatives in many situations, and it's network effects.
- ctdonath 6y ago
  Given there are many alternatives to Bitcoin, and considering how many juggernaut technologies I've seen vanish with hardly a trace, I'll stick with the position that Bitcoin isn't inherently & durably valuable precisely because john_alan (posting above) doesn't use it. There's plenty of other products that do the same, perhaps better, and the only reason Bitcoin is in use now is because it isn't not used.
  - john_alan 6y ago
    It will be a long time (maybe forever) before the masses use Monero or equivalent though...

Bancakes 6y ago

At least USD only goes up. I don't want to sell my old laptop in BTC and have it be worth half as much the next day.