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They have bigger wings... This article is just anti-Israeli propaganda I find it disappointing to read how it's being received on HN --- EDIT: Why is this b

They have bigger wings... This article is just anti-Israeli propaganda I find it disappointing to read how it's being received on HN --- EDIT: Why is this being down-voted? Are those drones different from missiles in a meaningful way? No, certainly not in any "ethical" way Is there a reason to single-out Israel here? No Explain if you disagree and actually have some knowledge and experience with this international industry.

skinkestek 6y ago
HN is slightly anti-jewish. It is just a matter of fact. A good thing however is it seems to changing slowly towards a more nuanced perspective. Here's a true story which kind of describes a very similar situation but with a different outcome than what we've seen (yet). For years I was bullied at school, and anytime I took revenge teachers arrived swiftly, telling me that even if the others started I wasn't allowed to respond. I still did though but it was obvious that I got more trouble for it than them. Then I came to a new school. Pattern continues. I complained, nobody did anything. Then one day I gave another bloke a real beating, and for a change my teacher stepped up and told the other teachers that if they couldn't ensure skinkestek was left alone they better not interfere when I gave the bullies a beating. That was the last fight. Once they realized they wouldn't get any sympathy anymore it stopped. My siblings also stopped being harassed. Generally everything got quieter because I was top dog now - and I didn't want to fight. I feel this is the same in middle east. Israel is strongest but want peace. The international community keeps this conflict going like my teachers used to do by verbally abusing the strong but peaceful one. My guess is the moment Hamas realizes there is no more sympathy to be gained by doing insane attacks that only serve to anger the neighbor then we'll get peace.
- tomcooks 6y ago
  This is about Israel not Jews. Israel is a country, Jews are not a country. Israel is not made of Jews, there are other religions in Israel. Why do you have to invent things and call them "matter of fact", such as Israel being a bastion of peace when they invest so much money and energy on Army and weapons or HN being pro/anti certain religions, is beyond my comprehension.
  - amitport 6y ago
    Funny you say this is beyond your comprehension AND be so biased against Israel. Either you're incredibly naive about what an actual threat to a country and its civilians means (oh no! they invest in Army and weapons), or you're just a little bit anti-semite.
    - Banana699 6y ago
      Just an honest question: do you think Manifest Destiny and killing native Americans was justified or in any way legitimate ? If you answer with a no, how can you support a country that arose and expanded exactly the same way ? is it the "old homeland" bullshit Israeli propoganda loves to spew ? If so, why not be completely fair and give back the balkans to the turks or spain to the Greeks or the whole mediterranean coast to the Italians?, the last two in particular were a true homeland for their conquerors for at least a millennia. What's the difference ? Its ridiculous and pathetic you want to frame this as an attack against jews. I guess you took a page from ultra-islamists calling every criticism of islam "Islamophobia". But that's just you closing your ears and shouting "Blah Blah Blah I don't hear you.. Israel good, Israel good, Israel good", _Every_ Nation State in existence is an organized crime organization with a seat in the UN, Israel is just unlucky enough to have come late to the game, when Universal Human Rights were recognized as a good idea. You don't gain points for pointing out how this country or that killed n millions more than Israel, at least those other mobsters got a claim to the territory they rule that is more solid than "Well there is this book that a sky daddy wrote and it says right there that this piece of land belongs to us".
      - skinkestek 6y ago
        > If so, why not be completely fair and give back the balkans to the turks or spain to the Greeks or the whole mediterranean coast to the Italians?, the last two in particular were a true homeland for their conquerors for at least a millennia. What's the difference ? If so, all the Jews that were chased from their homes in all the neighboring countries should also be given their homes back too, right? Because this is a lot more complex than the media typically give it credit for. Media conveniently forget that Jews were also driven from their homes and into Israel - only Israel integrated their refugees instead of putting them in refugee camps for use as a political pawn.
- askvictor 6y ago
  What is your evidence for HN being anti-Jewish, as opposed to anti-Israel or anti-Zionist? I'm genuinely interested; it's easy to conflate these three (on both sides of the argument)
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    If you consequently attack women I don't care if you do it because they look feminine or because they are actually women. If you attack the only national home of the Jewish people, the only state that can be relied on to stand up for them, I don't care if you do it because they live in Israel, because they care about Jews or because they are Jews. The result is the same.
    - betwixthewires 6y ago
      Alright, I'm pro Israel in the sense that I believe the state has the right to exist and defend itself, but this is chickenshit. You cannot just browbeat people into supporting the actions of a state by calling them racist if they don't. Israel != Judaism.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      You seem to be conflating "Jews" with "Israel" on the basis that Israel is "the only national home of the Jewish people". What does that mean exactly? The Jewish race, or the Jewish religion? Do American Jews not count because they are not in the majority and/or the race/religion isn't specifically written into law? In any case, the result is indeed the same: that Israel cannot be criticised. But people are not criticising Israel because "they care for Jews", but rather for who they don't care for. TLDR; If You want to defend Israel, or attack its attackers; Do so without ad-homs, straw-men and/or unreasonable maxims.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  Too late to edit, but it seems the tide has already turned: for what I think is the first time I'm net positive for defending Israel. Maybe I've become more careful over the years, but personally I think it is more about HNers starting to question the media narrative.
- Justsignedup 6y ago
  This may have been true in the past. At this moment Israel is doing a whole lot of evil shit. They are becoming (or already have become) an apartheid state. I am Jewish with lots of family there. However being Jewish does not elevate Israel from criticism. They were definitely a model country for some time. Now... not so much. Right-wing nationalism has infected every part of the world.

skinkestek 6y ago

HN is slightly anti-jewish. It is just a matter of fact. A good thing however is it seems to changing slowly towards a more nuanced perspective. Here's a true story which kind of describes a very similar situation but with a different outcome than what we've seen (yet). For years I was bullied at school, and anytime I took revenge teachers arrived swiftly, telling me that even if the others started I wasn't allowed to respond. I still did though but it was obvious that I got more trouble for it than them. Then I came to a new school. Pattern continues. I complained, nobody did anything. Then one day I gave another bloke a real beating, and for a change my teacher stepped up and told the other teachers that if they couldn't ensure skinkestek was left alone they better not interfere when I gave the bullies a beating. That was the last fight. Once they realized they wouldn't get any sympathy anymore it stopped. My siblings also stopped being harassed. Generally everything got quieter because I was top dog now - and I didn't want to fight. I feel this is the same in middle east. Israel is strongest but want peace. The international community keeps this conflict going like my teachers used to do by verbally abusing the strong but peaceful one. My guess is the moment Hamas realizes there is no more sympathy to be gained by doing insane attacks that only serve to anger the neighbor then we'll get peace.

tomcooks 6y ago
This is about Israel not Jews. Israel is a country, Jews are not a country. Israel is not made of Jews, there are other religions in Israel. Why do you have to invent things and call them "matter of fact", such as Israel being a bastion of peace when they invest so much money and energy on Army and weapons or HN being pro/anti certain religions, is beyond my comprehension.
- amitport 6y ago
  Funny you say this is beyond your comprehension AND be so biased against Israel. Either you're incredibly naive about what an actual threat to a country and its civilians means (oh no! they invest in Army and weapons), or you're just a little bit anti-semite.
  - Banana699 6y ago
    Just an honest question: do you think Manifest Destiny and killing native Americans was justified or in any way legitimate ? If you answer with a no, how can you support a country that arose and expanded exactly the same way ? is it the "old homeland" bullshit Israeli propoganda loves to spew ? If so, why not be completely fair and give back the balkans to the turks or spain to the Greeks or the whole mediterranean coast to the Italians?, the last two in particular were a true homeland for their conquerors for at least a millennia. What's the difference ? Its ridiculous and pathetic you want to frame this as an attack against jews. I guess you took a page from ultra-islamists calling every criticism of islam "Islamophobia". But that's just you closing your ears and shouting "Blah Blah Blah I don't hear you.. Israel good, Israel good, Israel good", _Every_ Nation State in existence is an organized crime organization with a seat in the UN, Israel is just unlucky enough to have come late to the game, when Universal Human Rights were recognized as a good idea. You don't gain points for pointing out how this country or that killed n millions more than Israel, at least those other mobsters got a claim to the territory they rule that is more solid than "Well there is this book that a sky daddy wrote and it says right there that this piece of land belongs to us".
    - skinkestek 6y ago
      > If so, why not be completely fair and give back the balkans to the turks or spain to the Greeks or the whole mediterranean coast to the Italians?, the last two in particular were a true homeland for their conquerors for at least a millennia. What's the difference ? If so, all the Jews that were chased from their homes in all the neighboring countries should also be given their homes back too, right? Because this is a lot more complex than the media typically give it credit for. Media conveniently forget that Jews were also driven from their homes and into Israel - only Israel integrated their refugees instead of putting them in refugee camps for use as a political pawn.
askvictor 6y ago
What is your evidence for HN being anti-Jewish, as opposed to anti-Israel or anti-Zionist? I'm genuinely interested; it's easy to conflate these three (on both sides of the argument)
- skinkestek 6y ago
  If you consequently attack women I don't care if you do it because they look feminine or because they are actually women. If you attack the only national home of the Jewish people, the only state that can be relied on to stand up for them, I don't care if you do it because they live in Israel, because they care about Jews or because they are Jews. The result is the same.
  - betwixthewires 6y ago
    Alright, I'm pro Israel in the sense that I believe the state has the right to exist and defend itself, but this is chickenshit. You cannot just browbeat people into supporting the actions of a state by calling them racist if they don't. Israel != Judaism.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    You seem to be conflating "Jews" with "Israel" on the basis that Israel is "the only national home of the Jewish people". What does that mean exactly? The Jewish race, or the Jewish religion? Do American Jews not count because they are not in the majority and/or the race/religion isn't specifically written into law? In any case, the result is indeed the same: that Israel cannot be criticised. But people are not criticising Israel because "they care for Jews", but rather for who they don't care for. TLDR; If You want to defend Israel, or attack its attackers; Do so without ad-homs, straw-men and/or unreasonable maxims.
skinkestek 6y ago
Too late to edit, but it seems the tide has already turned: for what I think is the first time I'm net positive for defending Israel. Maybe I've become more careful over the years, but personally I think it is more about HNers starting to question the media narrative.
Justsignedup 6y ago
This may have been true in the past. At this moment Israel is doing a whole lot of evil shit. They are becoming (or already have become) an apartheid state. I am Jewish with lots of family there. However being Jewish does not elevate Israel from criticism. They were definitely a model country for some time. Now... not so much. Right-wing nationalism has infected every part of the world.