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I would have thought that the main reason people ‘shoot to kill’ is in self protection, if more autonomy is introduced then surely lethal force would be require

I would have thought that the main reason people ‘shoot to kill’ is in self protection, if more autonomy is introduced then surely lethal force would be required in less situations.

realistan 6y ago
Most of the persons crossing the border between Gaza and Israel do so for nefarious purposes, ie attacking civilians in nearby Israeli villages and cities. So yeah, it's self protection. It wasn't always like this, Gaza had an airport, free travel to Israel and Egypt, etc. But the majority in Gaza has voted for Hamas, an extremist party which calls for the annihilation of Israel, so for now all Israel can do is watch the border closely and thwart attacks.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  Agree. It is also telling that Egypt allows no traffic over the border while Israel typically allow tens of semi trailers a day of food an humanitarian aid as long as they can ensure weapons aren't smuggled in.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    That's on Israel's insistence, so they can control the flow of goods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing > The Palestinians agreed that all imports of goods are diverted to the Kerem Shalom border crossing, because Israel threatened to exclude Gaza from the customs union out of concern about the implementation of the Paris Protocol.
    - realistan 6y ago
      Israel restricts flow of dual-use goods [1]. There's nothing wrong with that. If you had a bad neighbor, which has intentions to build bombs in his basement, you'd damn sure try to restrict what goes into his basement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        Israel's definition of dual-use is extremely broad. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-gaza-homes/amid-israeli-restrictions-on-materials-makeshift-homes-sprout-in-gaza-idUSKBN0LN1R920150219 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-gaza-homes/a... > Israel tightly limits the flow of concrete, cement, iron bars and other materials into Gaza, as “dual use” items that could have a military purpose if they were seized by Hamas to rebuild tunnels used to launch attacks. > That means few homes have been rebuilt despite international pledges of billions for reconstruction. Rather than wait to rebuild permanent homes, some relief agencies have decided to build temporary structures with materials they can get. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2019/04/17/world-bank-calls-for-reform-to-the-dual-use-goods-system-to-revive-a-stagnant-palestinian-economy https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2019/04/17/w... > The adverse effect of dual-use restrictions is mostly felt in manufacturing, ICT and agriculture. The agriculture sector contributes significantly to Palestinian food security; however, the dual use restrictions have lowered the concentration of active chemicals in fertilizers making them less effective and lowering land productivity to half of that in Jordan and only 43 percent of the yield in Israel. > For example, the restriction on ‘communications equipment, communications supporting equipment, equipment containing communication functions’, limits access to modern manufacturing production lines, spare parts, medical equipment and home appliances. It has also stood in the way of developing the Palestinian ICT sector and created a large technological gap with neighboring countries. It looks a lot like collective punishment.
        realistan 6y ago
        Israel definition of dual-use is adaptive. Very adaptive. > Concrete used to build attack tunnels - restrict concrete. > Burning old tires used as smoke mask to attack border - restrict import of used tires. > Helium balloons used as incendiary devices - restrict Helium supply. Those are all real examples from the last few years, btw. Edit: Basic necessities to sustain life - food, water, medicines are allowed. No need for hyperbole. If you had a bad neighbor, you would do the same.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
rorykoehler 6y ago
Easy to justify it as such with robots.
jrochkind1 6y ago
The main reason militaries "shoot to kill" is to exert power over territory and resources

I would have thought that the main reason people ‘shoot to kill’ is in self protection, if more autonomy is introduced then surely lethal force would be required in less situations.

realistan 6y ago

Most of the persons crossing the border between Gaza and Israel do so for nefarious purposes, ie attacking civilians in nearby Israeli villages and cities. So yeah, it's self protection. It wasn't always like this, Gaza had an airport, free travel to Israel and Egypt, etc. But the majority in Gaza has voted for Hamas, an extremist party which calls for the annihilation of Israel, so for now all Israel can do is watch the border closely and thwart attacks.

skinkestek 6y ago
Agree. It is also telling that Egypt allows no traffic over the border while Israel typically allow tens of semi trailers a day of food an humanitarian aid as long as they can ensure weapons aren't smuggled in.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  That's on Israel's insistence, so they can control the flow of goods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing > The Palestinians agreed that all imports of goods are diverted to the Kerem Shalom border crossing, because Israel threatened to exclude Gaza from the customs union out of concern about the implementation of the Paris Protocol.
  - realistan 6y ago
    Israel restricts flow of dual-use goods [1]. There's nothing wrong with that. If you had a bad neighbor, which has intentions to build bombs in his basement, you'd damn sure try to restrict what goes into his basement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-use_technology
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      Israel's definition of dual-use is extremely broad. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-gaza-homes/amid-israeli-restrictions-on-materials-makeshift-homes-sprout-in-gaza-idUSKBN0LN1R920150219 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-gaza-homes/a... > Israel tightly limits the flow of concrete, cement, iron bars and other materials into Gaza, as “dual use” items that could have a military purpose if they were seized by Hamas to rebuild tunnels used to launch attacks. > That means few homes have been rebuilt despite international pledges of billions for reconstruction. Rather than wait to rebuild permanent homes, some relief agencies have decided to build temporary structures with materials they can get. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2019/04/17/world-bank-calls-for-reform-to-the-dual-use-goods-system-to-revive-a-stagnant-palestinian-economy https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2019/04/17/w... > The adverse effect of dual-use restrictions is mostly felt in manufacturing, ICT and agriculture. The agriculture sector contributes significantly to Palestinian food security; however, the dual use restrictions have lowered the concentration of active chemicals in fertilizers making them less effective and lowering land productivity to half of that in Jordan and only 43 percent of the yield in Israel. > For example, the restriction on ‘communications equipment, communications supporting equipment, equipment containing communication functions’, limits access to modern manufacturing production lines, spare parts, medical equipment and home appliances. It has also stood in the way of developing the Palestinian ICT sector and created a large technological gap with neighboring countries. It looks a lot like collective punishment.
      - realistan 6y ago
        Israel definition of dual-use is adaptive. Very adaptive. > Concrete used to build attack tunnels - restrict concrete. > Burning old tires used as smoke mask to attack border - restrict import of used tires. > Helium balloons used as incendiary devices - restrict Helium supply. Those are all real examples from the last few years, btw. Edit: Basic necessities to sustain life - food, water, medicines are allowed. No need for hyperbole. If you had a bad neighbor, you would do the same.
        ceejayoz 6y ago

rorykoehler 6y ago

Easy to justify it as such with robots.

jrochkind1 6y ago

The main reason militaries "shoot to kill" is to exert power over territory and resources