3 ms·

Cool. In that case, they can come and say that instead of waiting yeah? Why are they "working on it" for 9 months and wasting everyone's time? It's one thing to

Cool. In that case, they can come and say that instead of waiting yeah? Why are they "working on it" for 9 months and wasting everyone's time? It's one thing to be direct and say that it's not possible for [insert reason]. It's another to be misleading.

sokoloff 6y ago
If you’re progressing from “just out of college” to the level one above that of “basically competent engineer” (which in some companies is a different level and in others not), you have a case to make that you’re getting jerked around or there’s miscommunication at some link in the chain. That’s a promotion where the company goals and your goals are perfectly aligned and you only have to show increasing technical competence and no crippling deficits elsewhere. In many ways, it’s like getting from promoted from grade 3 to grade 4 in school. Do all the grade N work and you’ll progress to grade N+1. If you’re making the case to go from a mid-level IC to a senior level, promotion is rarely about “nine_zeros hit all goals at a lower level” or “nine_zeros shipped at-level quality code on time at the direction of eleven_zeros who is at the higher level that nine wants to become”. That’s what full performance at your current level looks like. Performance at the higher level job is more about leading the project (or a big part of it), taking business strategy and turning it into your team’s technical goals and promotion into that level is supported by initial glimmers of evidence of doing that work, not (only) by strong performance at your current level.
- nine_zeros 6y ago
  You haven't answered my question. What's stopping the manager from saying [insert text from sokoloff] right off the bat? Why make me do other "specifics" and then renege? I suspect it's incompetence in management but I'm happy to hear how you would defend such behavior.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I’m not defending their behavior, because I don’t even know what their what their behavior actually is. I’ve heard a small snapshot of it from not them. I’m trying to help paint a picture of how the promotion process works in a lot of companies, especially for promotions other than the first one. I see it all the time in my own company. People, especially the talented and high-achieving types, seem to think promotions work one way (likely because they actually have worked that way all through their life up until that point) and are genuinely confused when they are faced with the first time they work under a different model. “What do you mean I’m not being promoted?! I passed all the tests assigned to me in single-variable algebra!” That would never happen in school, but if it did, no one would explain “yes, but there was a teacher there providing guidance.” “What do you mean I’m not being promoted to SWE3?! I demonstrated 9 months of mastery at SWE2 and hit all the goals assigned to me!” “Yes, but there was an SWE3 guiding you on that project.” High achieving SWE2s often think that’s as ridiculous as the algebra example, while most managers and tenured SWE3s see them as obviously different. It’s entirely possible that they’re screwing you over. When you ask for specifics, they offer, and you accept “better delivery” as an answer, effective communication did not happen. The specifics you reported above are exactly not specific. For all I know, your opinion of your work is higher than theirs and they’re maliciously trying to keep you grinding away as long as possible. Equally for all I know, they think there’s a couple things you need to shore up to be ready for the next level and you aren’t listening hard enough because you’re so focused on the prize that you’re debating them on every point they raise rather than reflecting on the 10-40% of what they say that’s dead right. Equally for all I know, there’s a policy in the company that is blocking a promotion at your amount of tenure in role or something else. The only thing I’m 100% sure is among you, your manager, and me, I’m the one who knows the absolute least about the situation.

sokoloff 6y ago

If you’re progressing from “just out of college” to the level one above that of “basically competent engineer” (which in some companies is a different level and in others not), you have a case to make that you’re getting jerked around or there’s miscommunication at some link in the chain. That’s a promotion where the company goals and your goals are perfectly aligned and you only have to show increasing technical competence and no crippling deficits elsewhere. In many ways, it’s like getting from promoted from grade 3 to grade 4 in school. Do all the grade N work and you’ll progress to grade N+1. If you’re making the case to go from a mid-level IC to a senior level, promotion is rarely about “nine_zeros hit all goals at a lower level” or “nine_zeros shipped at-level quality code on time at the direction of eleven_zeros who is at the higher level that nine wants to become”. That’s what full performance at your current level looks like. Performance at the higher level job is more about leading the project (or a big part of it), taking business strategy and turning it into your team’s technical goals and promotion into that level is supported by initial glimmers of evidence of doing that work, not (only) by strong performance at your current level.

nine_zeros 6y ago
You haven't answered my question. What's stopping the manager from saying [insert text from sokoloff] right off the bat? Why make me do other "specifics" and then renege? I suspect it's incompetence in management but I'm happy to hear how you would defend such behavior.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I’m not defending their behavior, because I don’t even know what their what their behavior actually is. I’ve heard a small snapshot of it from not them. I’m trying to help paint a picture of how the promotion process works in a lot of companies, especially for promotions other than the first one. I see it all the time in my own company. People, especially the talented and high-achieving types, seem to think promotions work one way (likely because they actually have worked that way all through their life up until that point) and are genuinely confused when they are faced with the first time they work under a different model. “What do you mean I’m not being promoted?! I passed all the tests assigned to me in single-variable algebra!” That would never happen in school, but if it did, no one would explain “yes, but there was a teacher there providing guidance.” “What do you mean I’m not being promoted to SWE3?! I demonstrated 9 months of mastery at SWE2 and hit all the goals assigned to me!” “Yes, but there was an SWE3 guiding you on that project.” High achieving SWE2s often think that’s as ridiculous as the algebra example, while most managers and tenured SWE3s see them as obviously different. It’s entirely possible that they’re screwing you over. When you ask for specifics, they offer, and you accept “better delivery” as an answer, effective communication did not happen. The specifics you reported above are exactly not specific. For all I know, your opinion of your work is higher than theirs and they’re maliciously trying to keep you grinding away as long as possible. Equally for all I know, they think there’s a couple things you need to shore up to be ready for the next level and you aren’t listening hard enough because you’re so focused on the prize that you’re debating them on every point they raise rather than reflecting on the 10-40% of what they say that’s dead right. Equally for all I know, there’s a policy in the company that is blocking a promotion at your amount of tenure in role or something else. The only thing I’m 100% sure is among you, your manager, and me, I’m the one who knows the absolute least about the situation.