6 ms·

I mostly eat salmon, but I'd love to switch to smaller fish. Does anyone know a good way to get herring or sardines other than canned? Apart from being more ex

I mostly eat salmon, but I'd love to switch to smaller fish. Does anyone know a good way to get herring or sardines other than canned? Apart from being more expensive due to preparation, even bpa free can liners worry me a bit. Frozen would be ideal.

ghaff 6y ago
Frozen sardines can be found in the US although not nearly as commonly as other fish. I've seen fresh sardines in Whole Foods but very rarely.
GordonS 6y ago
The vast majority of salmon is farmed, so sustainable in the sense that it isn't going to diminish wild stocks. There are arguments against open-pen aquaculture too of course, but it's all relative. And a lot of money is being spent on solving those issues, such as deep sea aquaculture (where the effluent isn't a big problem, compared to static coastal pens), closed-containment (where all waste can be collected and used to make fertilizer), and land-based aquaculture (personally, I really don't like this).
- chriskanan 6y ago
  Farmed fish isn't necessarily sustainable. It depends on the species. For some species, e.g., eel, they are farm raised but they are wild caught when young. For eel, we have not been able to get them to lay eggs that could be hatched and they take 10-25 years to reach sexual maturity [0]. Eels are not doing very well at all. Moreover, farmed fish are often fed wild fish, so that could have some strong negative impact on ecosystems. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eel_life_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eel_life_history https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_fish_feed#Sustainability https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_fish_feed#Sustain... https://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/food/cooking/The-facts-about-farmed-salmon-you-wish-you-didn-t-know_166193900/ https://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/food/cooking/The-facts...
  - GordonS 6y ago
    I'm (very) familiar with salmon aquaculture, but know very little about other species. As far as salmon go, there has been a huge push to reduce wild catch content in feed, replacing it things like soya. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I recall being impressed - if you're interested, you can search for the latest MOWI annual report (think they call it a "sustainability report"), and Norwegian ministries publish a wealth of information.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      The problem is that carnivore fishes are tasty, and vegetarian fishes... not so much. You can't just replace all their food by plant stuff and expect a good growth. 5-10% of soy, maybe, I' don't remember the exact value, but > 50%... No way. Fishes get ill and growth is stunted. It promotes cannibalism also. Premium fish food for aquaculture is expensive.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    It depends on the species, but you have some options at least.
phonon 6y ago
Jarred herring is pretty common. Whole Foods carries https://products.wholefoodsmarket.com/brand/blue-hill-bay https://products.wholefoodsmarket.com/brand/blue-hill-bay which are quite delicious. Note: don't overdo it with the small fishes. They have high levels of purines which cause gout.
- 1MachineElf 6y ago
  If you're lucky enough to live near a metropolitan area, then you might have a Russian market. I'd recommend going to one and getting one of the small packages of herring. There usually have whole fillets preserved in what amounts to vegetable/sunflower oil and salt. No sugar added. The flavor of this herring is more pure, and reminds me more of what it's like to get it fresh from a vendor in Holland. It might just be the diabetic predisposition I have due to family members having it, but the idea of herring preserved with sugar like you see with jarred variety, is of off-putting to me.
- justinator 6y ago
  Technically, I don't think it's correct to say that purines cause gout; but that the inability to break down purines causes gout. What's the root cause of that? Kidney dysfunction, and a history of bad diet, bad exercise habits. It could very well be that switching to a better diet that includes foods like sardines is beneficial and even a net positive to someone who is susceptible to gout even though sardines have higher levels of purines than other foods. I never knew I'd like - or even crave canned herring but I have to say: it's absolutely delicious. Because of the essentially destruction and collapse of the ocean's fisheries, the majority of fish I eat these days is just canned sardines. Compared to say wild caught tuna, they're pretty sustainable (although again: the details are complicated).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pvaldes 6y ago
It depends on where you live. If you is very far from the sea and main markets, freswhater fishes could be the choice. Sardines are easy to find in Europe. You can have also bigger pieces canned but preserved in salt. Is a different product that your typical canned sardines and more environmentally responsible. The elder fishes have a choice to reproduce before to being fished and tins are bigger so more efficient to produce. Some people love them, other dislike the extra salty stuff. is an acquired taste.

ghaff 6y ago

Frozen sardines can be found in the US although not nearly as commonly as other fish. I've seen fresh sardines in Whole Foods but very rarely.

GordonS 6y ago

The vast majority of salmon is farmed, so sustainable in the sense that it isn't going to diminish wild stocks. There are arguments against open-pen aquaculture too of course, but it's all relative. And a lot of money is being spent on solving those issues, such as deep sea aquaculture (where the effluent isn't a big problem, compared to static coastal pens), closed-containment (where all waste can be collected and used to make fertilizer), and land-based aquaculture (personally, I really don't like this).

chriskanan 6y ago
Farmed fish isn't necessarily sustainable. It depends on the species. For some species, e.g., eel, they are farm raised but they are wild caught when young. For eel, we have not been able to get them to lay eggs that could be hatched and they take 10-25 years to reach sexual maturity [0]. Eels are not doing very well at all. Moreover, farmed fish are often fed wild fish, so that could have some strong negative impact on ecosystems. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eel_life_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eel_life_history https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_fish_feed#Sustainability https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_fish_feed#Sustain... https://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/food/cooking/The-facts-about-farmed-salmon-you-wish-you-didn-t-know_166193900/ https://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/food/cooking/The-facts...
- GordonS 6y ago
  I'm (very) familiar with salmon aquaculture, but know very little about other species. As far as salmon go, there has been a huge push to reduce wild catch content in feed, replacing it things like soya. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I recall being impressed - if you're interested, you can search for the latest MOWI annual report (think they call it a "sustainability report"), and Norwegian ministries publish a wealth of information.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    The problem is that carnivore fishes are tasty, and vegetarian fishes... not so much. You can't just replace all their food by plant stuff and expect a good growth. 5-10% of soy, maybe, I' don't remember the exact value, but > 50%... No way. Fishes get ill and growth is stunted. It promotes cannibalism also. Premium fish food for aquaculture is expensive.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  It depends on the species, but you have some options at least.

phonon 6y ago

Jarred herring is pretty common. Whole Foods carries https://products.wholefoodsmarket.com/brand/blue-hill-bay https://products.wholefoodsmarket.com/brand/blue-hill-bay which are quite delicious. Note: don't overdo it with the small fishes. They have high levels of purines which cause gout.

1MachineElf 6y ago
If you're lucky enough to live near a metropolitan area, then you might have a Russian market. I'd recommend going to one and getting one of the small packages of herring. There usually have whole fillets preserved in what amounts to vegetable/sunflower oil and salt. No sugar added. The flavor of this herring is more pure, and reminds me more of what it's like to get it fresh from a vendor in Holland. It might just be the diabetic predisposition I have due to family members having it, but the idea of herring preserved with sugar like you see with jarred variety, is of off-putting to me.
justinator 6y ago
Technically, I don't think it's correct to say that purines cause gout; but that the inability to break down purines causes gout. What's the root cause of that? Kidney dysfunction, and a history of bad diet, bad exercise habits. It could very well be that switching to a better diet that includes foods like sardines is beneficial and even a net positive to someone who is susceptible to gout even though sardines have higher levels of purines than other foods. I never knew I'd like - or even crave canned herring but I have to say: it's absolutely delicious. Because of the essentially destruction and collapse of the ocean's fisheries, the majority of fish I eat these days is just canned sardines. Compared to say wild caught tuna, they're pretty sustainable (although again: the details are complicated).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pvaldes 6y ago

It depends on where you live. If you is very far from the sea and main markets, freswhater fishes could be the choice. Sardines are easy to find in Europe. You can have also bigger pieces canned but preserved in salt. Is a different product that your typical canned sardines and more environmentally responsible. The elder fishes have a choice to reproduce before to being fished and tins are bigger so more efficient to produce. Some people love them, other dislike the extra salty stuff. is an acquired taste.