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The number one reason I support the right to own firearms is protection against the state. If it was as easy to own and buy guns in Hong Kong as it is in the US

The number one reason I support the right to own firearms is protection against the state. If it was as easy to own and buy guns in Hong Kong as it is in the USA the current situation with the destruction of democracy and the imposition of authoritarian rule would have been a much fairer fight. Beyond that, my extended family is almost entirely based in the Deep South of the US, one of my cousins is a professional firearm dealer, and another works for one of the largest sellers of hunting apparel. One of my best friends owns about 50 guns. The number of irresponsible uses of guns in my family and friends group are zero. Guns are a tool like anything else - if it’s legal to own a chainsaw, a hunting knife, or a sledgehammer then it is not ridiculous to have licensed responsible adults to own guns. I applaud the sale of firearms and the continuing spread of the culture to all people, races, and genders. The more people learn responsible use of guns and own them, the safer they will be, the safer society will be, and the less likely some idiot group of politicians will ban them.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
adflux 6y ago
I agree entirely, even though I am not from the US. The US has a mental health and poverty problem, NOT a gun problem. Plenty of examples of wealthy countries with lots of guns (Sweden, Switzerland) and little to no gun violence.
- muglug 6y ago
  Those countries have massively more stringent rules around gun ownership, and much lower gun ownership rates. Not at all comparable.
  - GcVmvNhBsU 6y ago
    Not to mention conscription, which probably helps with both discipline and meeting people not like you.
muglug 6y ago
“A fairer fight”? It would have been a bloodbath.
- seibelj 6y ago
  I think living under the steel toed boot of communist dictatorship is something worth fighting and dying for. But I’m a freedom lover from the Land of the Free, not someone who could mentally accept living under a dictator at any cost.
  - muglug 6y ago
    A lot of those freedom-lovers from the land of the free tried to prevent a democratic election from being ratified.
  - monkey_monkey 6y ago
    Just wanted to let you know that cosplaying a freedom fighter on the internet is quite different from doing it in real life.
    - seibelj 6y ago
      It’s hilarious you think the US citizens would allow a President Xi type dictator to take over. You do not understand US culture.
      - monkey_monkey 6y ago
        Bro, please. Let's not make this any more embarrassing than it already is.
        seibelj 6y ago
        Found the Chinese puppet account. You do realize your boss is one fat fucking loser right?
        6y ago
cassepipe 6y ago
And China has also drones and an organized military. A military face to face with a nation state is always a losing bet. Which is why there are guerilla tactics but you can't expect a whole population to adopt guerilla warfare, there's not enough room in the jungle. What works is to make the economic cost of repression very costly with massive strikes and massive refusal to pay taxes, an organized military is very costly and when soldiers don't get paid they may disobey too. You also have to make the moral cost of being on the good side of the gun costly too then parts of the military may go into disobedience/mutiny. But this is generally taken into account by states and they will avoid sending batallions from a region in that region. On a different note, how do you justify having 50 guns for personal protection?
- auganov 6y ago
  > On a different note, how do you justify having 50 guns for personal protection? The point is exactly that the gun debate shouldn't be just about everyday personal protection. In case of a massive conflict it's great to have enough supplies to last years and to hand out to those who need them. You may not be able to just go to a store and get more.
gostsamo 6y ago
This is a strange fantasy that many gun supporters share with you that having a gun makes you a warrior. It is even bigger fantasy that a persistent resistance can exist in an isolated urban setting when under the control of an overwhelming well-organized, well-supplied, highly technological armed force that has no restrictions to be civilized or respect individual rights such as is the situation in Hong Kong. It is very nice that you all have this gun fetish and it keeps you happy, but guns can't substitute for sound institutions, social cohesion, and rule of law.
- seibelj 6y ago
  This isn’t a fantasy. It’s simply a fact when you have a huge number of people owning guns, implementing a dictatorship is harder. We also have a culture of loving freedom. In HK, you have a formerly free society that was brutally repressed by the authoritarian state. Saying “it will never happen” belies the fact it literally just happened! I have family that lost everything to communism and had to restart in America. If you have never had to live under authoritarian rule, as a huge portion of civilization had to in the past and still currently do, it’s easy to think a reversion to the mean will never happen. But it can and does!
  - gostsamo 6y ago
    I'm from a former communist country. We had anti-communist gorilla fighters to the mid fifties. Guess what, the gorillas were hunted down and neutralized one by one. Guess why, they didn't have arm supplies, they didn't have outside power that would provide them with air cover, they didn't have safe bases for recruiting and training new fighters, for healing and planning operations. Without those basics your freedom loving people will be a sitting target. After a sufficient bloodbath, many will be killed, many will be imprisoned, many will be deported to other ends of the country, many will be broken, and the rest would prefer to forget and to return to some semblance of normality.
    - tablespoon 6y ago
      >> This isn’t a fantasy. It’s simply a fact when you have a huge number of people owning guns, implementing a dictatorship is harder. > I'm from a former communist country. We had anti-communist gorilla fighters to the mid fifties. Guess what, the gorillas were hunted down and neutralized one by one. What proportion of the population were those fighters? It's obvious that a small poorly-supplied force can't stand up to a brutal state, on the other hand "a huge number" of armed people might be able to, or at least put up a respectable fight. Furthermore, there's a deterrent effect from having an armed population that has to be taken into account.
EdwardDiego 6y ago
> If it was as easy to own and buy guns in Hong Kong as it is in the USA the current situation with the destruction of democracy and the imposition of authoritarian rule would have been a much fairer fight. Unless anti-tank munitions are also available, armed HKers would've just led to armoured fighting vehicles on the streets. The State will always have more firepower than you.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

adflux 6y ago

I agree entirely, even though I am not from the US. The US has a mental health and poverty problem, NOT a gun problem. Plenty of examples of wealthy countries with lots of guns (Sweden, Switzerland) and little to no gun violence.

muglug 6y ago
Those countries have massively more stringent rules around gun ownership, and much lower gun ownership rates. Not at all comparable.
- GcVmvNhBsU 6y ago
  Not to mention conscription, which probably helps with both discipline and meeting people not like you.

muglug 6y ago

“A fairer fight”? It would have been a bloodbath.

seibelj 6y ago
I think living under the steel toed boot of communist dictatorship is something worth fighting and dying for. But I’m a freedom lover from the Land of the Free, not someone who could mentally accept living under a dictator at any cost.
- muglug 6y ago
  A lot of those freedom-lovers from the land of the free tried to prevent a democratic election from being ratified.
- monkey_monkey 6y ago
  Just wanted to let you know that cosplaying a freedom fighter on the internet is quite different from doing it in real life.
  - seibelj 6y ago
    It’s hilarious you think the US citizens would allow a President Xi type dictator to take over. You do not understand US culture.
    - monkey_monkey 6y ago
      Bro, please. Let's not make this any more embarrassing than it already is.
      - seibelj 6y ago
        Found the Chinese puppet account. You do realize your boss is one fat fucking loser right?
        6y ago

cassepipe 6y ago

And China has also drones and an organized military. A military face to face with a nation state is always a losing bet. Which is why there are guerilla tactics but you can't expect a whole population to adopt guerilla warfare, there's not enough room in the jungle. What works is to make the economic cost of repression very costly with massive strikes and massive refusal to pay taxes, an organized military is very costly and when soldiers don't get paid they may disobey too. You also have to make the moral cost of being on the good side of the gun costly too then parts of the military may go into disobedience/mutiny. But this is generally taken into account by states and they will avoid sending batallions from a region in that region. On a different note, how do you justify having 50 guns for personal protection?

auganov 6y ago
> On a different note, how do you justify having 50 guns for personal protection? The point is exactly that the gun debate shouldn't be just about everyday personal protection. In case of a massive conflict it's great to have enough supplies to last years and to hand out to those who need them. You may not be able to just go to a store and get more.

gostsamo 6y ago

This is a strange fantasy that many gun supporters share with you that having a gun makes you a warrior. It is even bigger fantasy that a persistent resistance can exist in an isolated urban setting when under the control of an overwhelming well-organized, well-supplied, highly technological armed force that has no restrictions to be civilized or respect individual rights such as is the situation in Hong Kong. It is very nice that you all have this gun fetish and it keeps you happy, but guns can't substitute for sound institutions, social cohesion, and rule of law.

seibelj 6y ago
This isn’t a fantasy. It’s simply a fact when you have a huge number of people owning guns, implementing a dictatorship is harder. We also have a culture of loving freedom. In HK, you have a formerly free society that was brutally repressed by the authoritarian state. Saying “it will never happen” belies the fact it literally just happened! I have family that lost everything to communism and had to restart in America. If you have never had to live under authoritarian rule, as a huge portion of civilization had to in the past and still currently do, it’s easy to think a reversion to the mean will never happen. But it can and does!
- gostsamo 6y ago
  I'm from a former communist country. We had anti-communist gorilla fighters to the mid fifties. Guess what, the gorillas were hunted down and neutralized one by one. Guess why, they didn't have arm supplies, they didn't have outside power that would provide them with air cover, they didn't have safe bases for recruiting and training new fighters, for healing and planning operations. Without those basics your freedom loving people will be a sitting target. After a sufficient bloodbath, many will be killed, many will be imprisoned, many will be deported to other ends of the country, many will be broken, and the rest would prefer to forget and to return to some semblance of normality.
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    >> This isn’t a fantasy. It’s simply a fact when you have a huge number of people owning guns, implementing a dictatorship is harder. > I'm from a former communist country. We had anti-communist gorilla fighters to the mid fifties. Guess what, the gorillas were hunted down and neutralized one by one. What proportion of the population were those fighters? It's obvious that a small poorly-supplied force can't stand up to a brutal state, on the other hand "a huge number" of armed people might be able to, or at least put up a respectable fight. Furthermore, there's a deterrent effect from having an armed population that has to be taken into account.

EdwardDiego 6y ago

> If it was as easy to own and buy guns in Hong Kong as it is in the USA the current situation with the destruction of democracy and the imposition of authoritarian rule would have been a much fairer fight. Unless anti-tank munitions are also available, armed HKers would've just led to armoured fighting vehicles on the streets. The State will always have more firepower than you.