3 ms·

It is about the "tragedy of the commons", not any specific feature of industrial fishing. Indeed, where industrial fishing has assigned property rights, like w

It is about the "tragedy of the commons", not any specific feature of industrial fishing. Indeed, where industrial fishing has assigned property rights, like with fish farming, there are no issues with systemic collapse.

totetsu 6y ago
We already have territorial waters which are broadly ignored by fishing fleets from certain countries. Property laws on land work because you can enforce them. The ocean is too big.. and wet..
- nine_k 6y ago
  Satellites, aircraft, and navies exist, and can detect violations and force the perpetrators away. Doing so pervasively costs a lot of money, though; no country seems to be as rich as to engage in such enforcement with enough strictness.
Maursault 6y ago
> It is about "tragedy of the commons", not any specific feature of industrial fishing. I am certain the TotC is a feature of commercial fishing, and I am perplexed how anyone could separate the two. Overfishing, driven by greed ("Take what you can; give nothing back" [1]), itself is a specific feature of commercial fishing. [2] But I agree with your second statement, though the situation is more complex than merely the problem of fishing all of the fish and the collapse of entire species. [3] What I also believe is desperately needed is an indefinite moratorium on fishing anywhere beyond coastal territories. [4] [1] Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, 2003 (though this phrase actually originates from Caribbean pirates, though the original meaning concerns lines: when pulling a ship into a dock, to pull in as much slack as you can and don't let it go. In only a literal sense it seems it very much applies to commercial fishing. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evidence_for_overfishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evide... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_fishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_fishin... [4] https://e360.yale.edu/features/a-global-ban-on-fishing-on-the-high-seas-the-time-is-now https://e360.yale.edu/features/a-global-ban-on-fishing-on-th...

totetsu 6y ago

We already have territorial waters which are broadly ignored by fishing fleets from certain countries. Property laws on land work because you can enforce them. The ocean is too big.. and wet..

nine_k 6y ago
Satellites, aircraft, and navies exist, and can detect violations and force the perpetrators away. Doing so pervasively costs a lot of money, though; no country seems to be as rich as to engage in such enforcement with enough strictness.

Maursault 6y ago

> It is about "tragedy of the commons", not any specific feature of industrial fishing. I am certain the TotC is a feature of commercial fishing, and I am perplexed how anyone could separate the two. Overfishing, driven by greed ("Take what you can; give nothing back" [1]), itself is a specific feature of commercial fishing. [2] But I agree with your second statement, though the situation is more complex than merely the problem of fishing all of the fish and the collapse of entire species. [3] What I also believe is desperately needed is an indefinite moratorium on fishing anywhere beyond coastal territories. [4] [1] Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, 2003 (though this phrase actually originates from Caribbean pirates, though the original meaning concerns lines: when pulling a ship into a dock, to pull in as much slack as you can and don't let it go. In only a literal sense it seems it very much applies to commercial fishing. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evidence_for_overfishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evide... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_fishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_fishin... [4] https://e360.yale.edu/features/a-global-ban-on-fishing-on-the-high-seas-the-time-is-now https://e360.yale.edu/features/a-global-ban-on-fishing-on-th...