4 ms·

The author notes it well: > In Western studies, vegans had lower body mass index, lesser waist circumference, reduced blood sugar levels, lower low-density lip

The author notes it well: > In Western studies, vegans had lower body mass index, lesser waist circumference, reduced blood sugar levels, lower low-density lipoprotein (protein that transfer lipids around the body; fats are a kind of lipid) cholesterol (a type of lipid), less body fat & lower blood pressure than omnivores. My question is, do the studies shown account for body weight? Sure if you are comparing your average USA citizen (40.0% of which are obese) to a group that happens to be fit, you are definitely going to have much better outcome of the later. First part of the question would be, does veganism help with obesity? Or is it just correlated to it for other reasons? Conjecture: it seems no surprise that people who spend a significant amount of time worrying about their diet have on average much better BMI, but maybe the diet itself also helps. Second part would be, when adjusting for BMI, does veganism also show these benefits? Or are they benefits related only to BMI? There seem to be no separation of the benefits of being vegan vs the benefits of being fit when the health outcome is being discussed.

arcturus17 6y ago
My question to add to yours is: do those metrics really signal you are healthier beyond a certain threshold? I have no trouble believing that vegans have on average fairly lower BMI and bodyfat than omnivores. I eat a fairly well-balanced omnivore diet, I lift heavy, and I hover anywhere between 13-18% BF. My BMI is quite high because of lifting, and sometimes I'll allow my BF to rise to a certain point if I want to meet particular strength goals. But I'm not fat by any stretch of the imagination. I don't feel any healthier at 13% than at 15% BF, and I am not aware of any science that supports that. So what if a vegan is two points of BF leaner? An outcome-based perspective is much more useful. Do they live longer, and by how much? Also, I'm always wary about definitions and confounding factors in these analyses. One could eat very poorly as a vegan (lots of processed vegetable oils, etc.) but on average they probably eat in a much more health-conscious manner. "Omnivores" as a category will tend to lump in people on bologna sandwich and pepsi diets with people who eat mostly unprocessed foods, watch their energy balance and macros, etc. Are there any studies that compare vegans with health-focused omnivores?
BlargMcLarg 6y ago
These studies almost always compare typical western diet omnivores to health-conscious vegans, which in itself is fallacious. Health-conscious omnivores will eat drastically different compared to typical omnivores. Exactly as you put it, people who care for their diet are likely to be of better shape. BMI is a bad stat here though: it is likely one will get bigger from eating proper meat than they would on a vegan diet, without any training involved. BMI doesn't account for leanness or muscle mass. The biggest link between obesity and food is sugar intake. The thing that's making most omnivores fat is the needless sugar flavoring and breading surrounding a bad piece of food (be it vegetable, meat, fish, fruit, whatever) as something delicious. Nutritional sciences contradicts itself at any corner, finding healthy vegans, healthy vegetarians, healthy carnivores and healthy omnivores, except for the part where sugar is undoubtedly spiking insulin. Insulin in turn sets people up to be more easily overeat, as well as storing all those sugars as fat more easily. Considering health-conscious people will avoid these foods, they will eat less isolated sugar, fructose and foods high on the glycemic index, even if vegans end up getting most of their daily energy from fruit. Fruit offsets this somewhat thanks to the fiber you're eating with it (also why people say not to drink juice, or at least drink the pulp with it), but fiber can only do so much and fiber being a "mostly good" thing is also being put under scrutiny.

arcturus17 6y ago

My question to add to yours is: do those metrics really signal you are healthier beyond a certain threshold? I have no trouble believing that vegans have on average fairly lower BMI and bodyfat than omnivores. I eat a fairly well-balanced omnivore diet, I lift heavy, and I hover anywhere between 13-18% BF. My BMI is quite high because of lifting, and sometimes I'll allow my BF to rise to a certain point if I want to meet particular strength goals. But I'm not fat by any stretch of the imagination. I don't feel any healthier at 13% than at 15% BF, and I am not aware of any science that supports that. So what if a vegan is two points of BF leaner? An outcome-based perspective is much more useful. Do they live longer, and by how much? Also, I'm always wary about definitions and confounding factors in these analyses. One could eat very poorly as a vegan (lots of processed vegetable oils, etc.) but on average they probably eat in a much more health-conscious manner. "Omnivores" as a category will tend to lump in people on bologna sandwich and pepsi diets with people who eat mostly unprocessed foods, watch their energy balance and macros, etc. Are there any studies that compare vegans with health-focused omnivores?

BlargMcLarg 6y ago

These studies almost always compare typical western diet omnivores to health-conscious vegans, which in itself is fallacious. Health-conscious omnivores will eat drastically different compared to typical omnivores. Exactly as you put it, people who care for their diet are likely to be of better shape. BMI is a bad stat here though: it is likely one will get bigger from eating proper meat than they would on a vegan diet, without any training involved. BMI doesn't account for leanness or muscle mass. The biggest link between obesity and food is sugar intake. The thing that's making most omnivores fat is the needless sugar flavoring and breading surrounding a bad piece of food (be it vegetable, meat, fish, fruit, whatever) as something delicious. Nutritional sciences contradicts itself at any corner, finding healthy vegans, healthy vegetarians, healthy carnivores and healthy omnivores, except for the part where sugar is undoubtedly spiking insulin. Insulin in turn sets people up to be more easily overeat, as well as storing all those sugars as fat more easily. Considering health-conscious people will avoid these foods, they will eat less isolated sugar, fructose and foods high on the glycemic index, even if vegans end up getting most of their daily energy from fruit. Fruit offsets this somewhat thanks to the fiber you're eating with it (also why people say not to drink juice, or at least drink the pulp with it), but fiber can only do so much and fiber being a "mostly good" thing is also being put under scrutiny.