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Why does this egotistical viewpoint keep coming up on HN frontpage? Do most programmers think they're the only important member of a team? Is everyone frothing

Why does this egotistical viewpoint keep coming up on HN frontpage? Do most programmers think they're the only important member of a team? Is everyone frothing to themselves at their desks, muttering that they could do better on their own and should quit to start their own business?

gphil 15y ago
Not sure why you got down-voted for this, maybe you touched a nerve. I up-voted you for having a realistic perspective. Obviously (good) programmers are some of the most valuable employees around--but what about sales, support, etc? One can't be successful on their own just by coding. At a minimum one has to also sell, document and support software for it to really create value.
- crasshopper 15y ago
  Maybe because it sounded like I was disagreeing with dctoedt, who is obviously right. See Poeisis' comment below.
- xiaoma 15y ago
  People who can sell are also critical, but the difference is that salespeople's performance is more easily quantifiable than most others' and the stars generally do take in outsized earnings via commissions and/or bonuses. It's also easier for their mediocre colleagues to take, when they know that the money the they make is tied directly to how much they're bringing in for the company.
potatolicious 15y ago
I'm with you - I'm pretty tired of hearing the tired arguments about how developers are the lynchpin in every single thing that's even remotely related to technology. Programmers have some of the biggest egos I've ever seen out of any profession. We give Wall Street bankers a run for their money when it comes to how self-absorbed and how self-aggrandizing we are. So very sick and tired of coders belittling the role of everyone else in this society - 95% of coders out there wouldn't even remotely be able to cut it on their own without the umbilical of a stable, sizable employer. There are a lot more skills one needs to survive in their own business than simply the ability to implement software.
- mattdeboard 15y ago
  You'd be very hard-pressed to find a profession-specific forum of any kind that's not full of participants who think their profession is more important than others in their organization. I switched to software development in my 30s, after a career in PR and marketing. Talented software developers ARE some of the most impressive professionals I've ever met. And frankly, many many many marketeer and PR people deserve the ridicule. Heck, maybe even 95% :)
  - crasshopper 15y ago
    The quants on Wilmott & NuclearPhynance don't seem to think they're the linchpin. Maybe traders taunt them so much they know their place.
    - bastiat 15y ago
      We let them think we know our place. After all they are the implementers... I guess. Which mostly goes to show how malleable that line is.
mcantelon 15y ago
Some developers spend each day having questionable ideas pushed at them by people who have acquired organizational power through politics rather than technical/strategic knowledge. These developers should either strike out on their own, find new jobs, push back in the organization.
damoncali 15y ago
Supply and demand. In '98-'99 kids got big heads because they knew HTML. It will sort itself out in a year or two.
Poiesis 15y ago
How is it that the analogy of a stool--which generally needs three legs, minimum--is interpreted as a programmer's egotistical viewpoint?
- crasshopper 15y ago
  Oops, I didn't mean it to sound that way. I agree with dctoedt. Only an egotist couldn't see dctoedt's point.
drsnyder 15y ago
From my experience (as a programmer) I have seen what I would consider both mediocre and talented developers who fit your description of frothing to themselves thinking they could do better on their own. Neither performed up to their abilities mainly because of the distraction that the frothing caused. I the case of one talented developer, I was tempted to ask them the following question but held back: What makes you think you could do this kind of work at a high level as an entrepreneur when you are struggling doing it for someone else?

gphil 15y ago

Not sure why you got down-voted for this, maybe you touched a nerve. I up-voted you for having a realistic perspective. Obviously (good) programmers are some of the most valuable employees around--but what about sales, support, etc? One can't be successful on their own just by coding. At a minimum one has to also sell, document and support software for it to really create value.

crasshopper 15y ago
Maybe because it sounded like I was disagreeing with dctoedt, who is obviously right. See Poeisis' comment below.
xiaoma 15y ago
People who can sell are also critical, but the difference is that salespeople's performance is more easily quantifiable than most others' and the stars generally do take in outsized earnings via commissions and/or bonuses. It's also easier for their mediocre colleagues to take, when they know that the money the they make is tied directly to how much they're bringing in for the company.

potatolicious 15y ago

I'm with you - I'm pretty tired of hearing the tired arguments about how developers are the lynchpin in every single thing that's even remotely related to technology. Programmers have some of the biggest egos I've ever seen out of any profession. We give Wall Street bankers a run for their money when it comes to how self-absorbed and how self-aggrandizing we are. So very sick and tired of coders belittling the role of everyone else in this society - 95% of coders out there wouldn't even remotely be able to cut it on their own without the umbilical of a stable, sizable employer. There are a lot more skills one needs to survive in their own business than simply the ability to implement software.

mattdeboard 15y ago
You'd be very hard-pressed to find a profession-specific forum of any kind that's not full of participants who think their profession is more important than others in their organization. I switched to software development in my 30s, after a career in PR and marketing. Talented software developers ARE some of the most impressive professionals I've ever met. And frankly, many many many marketeer and PR people deserve the ridicule. Heck, maybe even 95% :)
- crasshopper 15y ago
  The quants on Wilmott & NuclearPhynance don't seem to think they're the linchpin. Maybe traders taunt them so much they know their place.
  - bastiat 15y ago
    We let them think we know our place. After all they are the implementers... I guess. Which mostly goes to show how malleable that line is.

mcantelon 15y ago

Some developers spend each day having questionable ideas pushed at them by people who have acquired organizational power through politics rather than technical/strategic knowledge. These developers should either strike out on their own, find new jobs, push back in the organization.

damoncali 15y ago

Supply and demand. In '98-'99 kids got big heads because they knew HTML. It will sort itself out in a year or two.

Poiesis 15y ago

How is it that the analogy of a stool--which generally needs three legs, minimum--is interpreted as a programmer's egotistical viewpoint?

crasshopper 15y ago
Oops, I didn't mean it to sound that way. I agree with dctoedt. Only an egotist couldn't see dctoedt's point.

drsnyder 15y ago

From my experience (as a programmer) I have seen what I would consider both mediocre and talented developers who fit your description of frothing to themselves thinking they could do better on their own. Neither performed up to their abilities mainly because of the distraction that the frothing caused. I the case of one talented developer, I was tempted to ask them the following question but held back: What makes you think you could do this kind of work at a high level as an entrepreneur when you are struggling doing it for someone else?