4 ms·

This is a completely reasonable and realistic premise. Within the Left community there are plenty of Marxist-Leninist academics and there was a significant over

This is a completely reasonable and realistic premise. Within the Left community there are plenty of Marxist-Leninist academics and there was a significant overlap with postmodernists, perhaps owing to its roots in the Parisian intellectual scene. Chomsky is a Libertarian Socialist.

sudosysgen 6y ago
Marxist-Leninst academics are quite ferociously opposed to Postmodernists - postmodernism is completely incompatible with Marxist intellectual frameworks which are thoroughly modernist. It's not a reasonable and realistic premise - it's word salad trying to scare.
- a0-prw 6y ago
  > It's not a reasonable and realistic premise - it's word salad trying to scare. Thank you for that, sir :) True and funny at the same time.
- alecco 6y ago
  Many of those self proclaimed Postmodernists have Che Guevara t-shirts and portraits of Mao, unironically. What they say does not match what they actually support and do.
a0-prw 6y ago
Chomsky identifies himself as an anarchist not a "libertarian socialist".
- alecco 6y ago
  This is correct. On paper he identifies as anarcho-sindicalist. But in mainstream terms "libertarian socialist" would be easier to understand. On the other hand, Chomsky supported many socialist and even marxist leaders. Like Chavez nationalizing every profitable sector of the economy. Note this is very not anarchist as it concentrates power in the state and a rulin elite. Perhaps he was blinded by his anti-war and anti Western establishment feelings. Who knows.
  - a0-prw 6y ago
    Of course he "supported many socialist and even marxist leaders". That's often been the direction to go to support actual, suffering, real people practically. It doesn't mean he thinks that's the ideal. Yes, compromises are made constantly.
- abalone 6y ago
  Here is Chomsky describing what Libertarian Socialism is, how such a highly organized society would be constructed, and that it is “traditional anarchism” while noting that “anarchism” is a broad term.[1] [1] https://youtu.be/b3m4aRQ9QvQ https://youtu.be/b3m4aRQ9QvQ
tsimionescu 6y ago
Can you find a single marxist-leninist who is also a postmodernist?? Postmodernism rejects any theories of the world that have any kind of absolute structure, while marxism is explicitly about defining such absolutes. In marxism, all people are either workers or capitalists (or outside the system); any good has an intrinsic value, and any work has an intrinsic plus-value; and on and on. You can also see this in the art favored by countries which liked to claim to be marxist-leninist (though they weren't). Far from being post-modern, it was in fact traditionalist and realist.
- abalone 6y ago
  Sure, Kristeva, famously.[1] [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/was-the-philosopher-julia-kristeva-a-cold-war-collaborator https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/was-the-philosopher-...
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    As far as I can tell, she is a postmodernist who started out as a Marxist, but has later abandoned it. At the very least, it doesn't seem to have had any prominence in her works, which are focused on personal psychology and feminist theory. I do admit that I may be completely off base, I know very little of her beyond what I could find on Wikipedia (which does list her as Marxist, but provides no further insight on why) and a handful of scholarly articles. Note: a much better example you could have given was Slavoj Žižek, to which I have no answer..

sudosysgen 6y ago

Marxist-Leninst academics are quite ferociously opposed to Postmodernists - postmodernism is completely incompatible with Marxist intellectual frameworks which are thoroughly modernist. It's not a reasonable and realistic premise - it's word salad trying to scare.

a0-prw 6y ago
> It's not a reasonable and realistic premise - it's word salad trying to scare. Thank you for that, sir :) True and funny at the same time.
alecco 6y ago
Many of those self proclaimed Postmodernists have Che Guevara t-shirts and portraits of Mao, unironically. What they say does not match what they actually support and do.

a0-prw 6y ago

Chomsky identifies himself as an anarchist not a "libertarian socialist".

alecco 6y ago
This is correct. On paper he identifies as anarcho-sindicalist. But in mainstream terms "libertarian socialist" would be easier to understand. On the other hand, Chomsky supported many socialist and even marxist leaders. Like Chavez nationalizing every profitable sector of the economy. Note this is very not anarchist as it concentrates power in the state and a rulin elite. Perhaps he was blinded by his anti-war and anti Western establishment feelings. Who knows.
- a0-prw 6y ago
  Of course he "supported many socialist and even marxist leaders". That's often been the direction to go to support actual, suffering, real people practically. It doesn't mean he thinks that's the ideal. Yes, compromises are made constantly.
abalone 6y ago
Here is Chomsky describing what Libertarian Socialism is, how such a highly organized society would be constructed, and that it is “traditional anarchism” while noting that “anarchism” is a broad term.[1] [1] https://youtu.be/b3m4aRQ9QvQ https://youtu.be/b3m4aRQ9QvQ

tsimionescu 6y ago

Can you find a single marxist-leninist who is also a postmodernist?? Postmodernism rejects any theories of the world that have any kind of absolute structure, while marxism is explicitly about defining such absolutes. In marxism, all people are either workers or capitalists (or outside the system); any good has an intrinsic value, and any work has an intrinsic plus-value; and on and on. You can also see this in the art favored by countries which liked to claim to be marxist-leninist (though they weren't). Far from being post-modern, it was in fact traditionalist and realist.

abalone 6y ago
Sure, Kristeva, famously.[1] [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/was-the-philosopher-julia-kristeva-a-cold-war-collaborator https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/was-the-philosopher-...
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  As far as I can tell, she is a postmodernist who started out as a Marxist, but has later abandoned it. At the very least, it doesn't seem to have had any prominence in her works, which are focused on personal psychology and feminist theory. I do admit that I may be completely off base, I know very little of her beyond what I could find on Wikipedia (which does list her as Marxist, but provides no further insight on why) and a handful of scholarly articles. Note: a much better example you could have given was Slavoj Žižek, to which I have no answer..