3 ms·

You must be talking about Vern Unsworth? He's NOT a diver and did not rescue anybody. He was a "cave expert". He was enjoying the limelight and was pretty host

by xedeon 6y ago

You must be talking about Vern Unsworth? He's NOT a diver and did not rescue anybody. He was a "cave expert". He was enjoying the limelight and was pretty hostile to anyone/anything that was taking the attention away from him. He also wanted to make money from it. Most shockingly. He said "I will make the divers sugger [sic] for leaving us out of the loop " Source (Exhibit 7, Page 49): https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.723137/gov.uscourts.cacd.723137.84.2_1.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.723137... When he heard that Elon was offering SpaceX engineering resources to the cause. He said on a video interview to take the submarine and shove it where the "sun doesn't shine" while maniacally laughing. These are all facts that came to light from his lawsuit. Which by the way he lost: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-wins-defamation-suit-british-diver/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-wins-defamation-suit-b... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/06/elon-musk-vernon-unsworth-trial-verdict https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/06/elon-musk... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/7887513/vernon-unsworth-v-elon-musk/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/7887513/vernon-unsworth... https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/2:2018cv08048/723137/165/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor...

heavyset_go 6y ago
> You must be talking about Vern Unsworth? He's NOT a diver and did not rescue anybody. He was a "cave expert". You must be responding to a strawman argument that I never made. Please show me where I claimed anything other than "he helped save children's lives". > He was enjoying the limelight and was pretty hostile to anyone/anything that was taking the attention away from him. He also wanted to make money from the fame. Considering that this is exactly what Musk did, I find it pretty ironic that his fans have no problem projecting that upon people that Musk smears. > He said on a video interview to take the submarine and shove it where the "sun doesn't shine" while maniacally laughing. Musk forced himself into a high stakes situation where literal children's lives were at risk. Instead of listening to the experts and officials executing the rescue effort, Musk turned the tragedy into a PR event and injected himself and his companies into a situation that he both wasn't wanted in and was asked not to participate in. When celebrities get involved with disaster scenarios, especially when they are not experts in themselves, they interfere with rescue efforts because officials often trust celebrity advice and interference over that of experts[1]. Had officials delegated to Musk's celebrity and his impractical "submarine", the children would have died. Why? Because the submarine was physically unable to navigate the sharp turns[2] that were required to reach the children and get them out. Unsworth, an expert and participant in the effort, used much kinder words than I would have had Musk tried to make a disaster that affected me into a PR spectacle. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44779998 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44779998 [2] https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10C6A/production/_102441786_thai_cave_rescue_v5_inf640-nc.png https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10C6A/production...
- xedeon 6y ago
  > Considering that this is exactly what Musk did, I find it pretty ironic that his fans have no problem projecting that upon people that Musk smears. A bit ad hominem isn't it? How do you know I am a fan? Everything I said are facts from court documents. Unsworth was even hostile to actual rescuers/divers... Are they fans of Musk too? How do you address this statement by Unsworth: "I will make the divers sugger [sic] for leaving us out of the loop" I think it speaks volumes about what kind of person he is and his moral values. Trying to capitalize on a "high stakes situation" per your own words. He is not exactly the saint/hero you're claiming. Based on court documents. Not my own opinion.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Care to address any of my post? Because I don't intend to participate in furthering Musk's infantile smear campaign even if you want to. edit: It would be nice if you indicated that you edited your above post after I had replied to it. Thanks. edit: edit: Given that you edited your post, I will have to reply via edit. > A bit ad hominem isn't it? How do you know I am a fan You're aware that HN posts aren't deleted, right? I know because of your own posts[1]. Of 338 total comments, 140 of them are defending Tesla, which is what 41.42% of your total posts are about. For someone who claims they aren't a fan, you sure have a strange fixation with defending the company, even making it a significant chunk of your HN career. I implore anyone who thinks that's an "ad hominem" to point this out to click on this link[1]. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=xedeon%20tesla&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=xedeon%20tesla&dateRange=all&p...
    - xedeon 6y ago
      I provided you with a collection of facts from the court case and ruling. Make of it what you will. But painting Unsworth as a saint that did nothing wrong and calling it a smear campaign is baseless. You are essentially discounting the judge/jury decision on this matter. If the facts were on Unsworth side. It would have been an ironclad case. I am operating from a factual standpoint. You seem to be on the emotional side because you keep going on this tirade.

by xedeon 6y ago

heavyset_go 6y ago

> You must be talking about Vern Unsworth? He's NOT a diver and did not rescue anybody. He was a "cave expert". You must be responding to a strawman argument that I never made. Please show me where I claimed anything other than "he helped save children's lives". > He was enjoying the limelight and was pretty hostile to anyone/anything that was taking the attention away from him. He also wanted to make money from the fame. Considering that this is exactly what Musk did, I find it pretty ironic that his fans have no problem projecting that upon people that Musk smears. > He said on a video interview to take the submarine and shove it where the "sun doesn't shine" while maniacally laughing. Musk forced himself into a high stakes situation where literal children's lives were at risk. Instead of listening to the experts and officials executing the rescue effort, Musk turned the tragedy into a PR event and injected himself and his companies into a situation that he both wasn't wanted in and was asked not to participate in. When celebrities get involved with disaster scenarios, especially when they are not experts in themselves, they interfere with rescue efforts because officials often trust celebrity advice and interference over that of experts[1]. Had officials delegated to Musk's celebrity and his impractical "submarine", the children would have died. Why? Because the submarine was physically unable to navigate the sharp turns[2] that were required to reach the children and get them out. Unsworth, an expert and participant in the effort, used much kinder words than I would have had Musk tried to make a disaster that affected me into a PR spectacle. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44779998 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44779998 [2] https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10C6A/production/_102441786_thai_cave_rescue_v5_inf640-nc.png https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10C6A/production...

xedeon 6y ago
> Considering that this is exactly what Musk did, I find it pretty ironic that his fans have no problem projecting that upon people that Musk smears. A bit ad hominem isn't it? How do you know I am a fan? Everything I said are facts from court documents. Unsworth was even hostile to actual rescuers/divers... Are they fans of Musk too? How do you address this statement by Unsworth: "I will make the divers sugger [sic] for leaving us out of the loop" I think it speaks volumes about what kind of person he is and his moral values. Trying to capitalize on a "high stakes situation" per your own words. He is not exactly the saint/hero you're claiming. Based on court documents. Not my own opinion.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Care to address any of my post? Because I don't intend to participate in furthering Musk's infantile smear campaign even if you want to. edit: It would be nice if you indicated that you edited your above post after I had replied to it. Thanks. edit: edit: Given that you edited your post, I will have to reply via edit. > A bit ad hominem isn't it? How do you know I am a fan You're aware that HN posts aren't deleted, right? I know because of your own posts[1]. Of 338 total comments, 140 of them are defending Tesla, which is what 41.42% of your total posts are about. For someone who claims they aren't a fan, you sure have a strange fixation with defending the company, even making it a significant chunk of your HN career. I implore anyone who thinks that's an "ad hominem" to point this out to click on this link[1]. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=xedeon%20tesla&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=xedeon%20tesla&dateRange=all&p...
  - xedeon 6y ago
    I provided you with a collection of facts from the court case and ruling. Make of it what you will. But painting Unsworth as a saint that did nothing wrong and calling it a smear campaign is baseless. You are essentially discounting the judge/jury decision on this matter. If the facts were on Unsworth side. It would have been an ironclad case. I am operating from a factual standpoint. You seem to be on the emotional side because you keep going on this tirade.