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I am so excited for this software. I have used Airtable extensively, and it's a pile of garbage. Here are just a FEW of the "features" Airtable charges $24/user

I am so excited for this software. I have used Airtable extensively, and it's a pile of garbage. Here are just a FEW of the "features" Airtable charges $24/user/mo for: - Reliable 1-5 hours a month of downtime. There are months where it's literally 1 nine of uptime. Their status page was actually down for a while (I think they forgot to renew it?) - Simple and obvious bugs in the official API clients have not been fixed for years (for example, Promises in the official JS library throw the string `[object Object]` for all exceptions.) - The API has no way to query the structure of a table, you have to infer it from the first few records. (The auto-generated API documentation is actually wrong if you don't have a fully-filled-in row somewhere in the first few rows.) - You can't modify a table configuration by API... except you can _sometimes_ by adding a parameter which is documented to try to convert dates, but actually modifies field definitions for a number of fields. Documentation for which fields is entirely in scattered forum posts from users. - Booleans in the API are `true` or `undefined`. Seriously. This is all /barely/ worth it because Google Docs doesn't work when you need a large structured database with many collaborators. But man is it bad software.

grioghar 6y ago
I’m so glad it’s not just me. I have been unimpressed with the over-complication and the...lacking API.
elwell 6y ago
I agree that Airtable is expensive, but I've found their custom app development experience to be quite nice.
tthun 6y ago
Try force.com (fully featured developer account is free with limits), very stable and fully featured PaaS with long tail of features. On a quick review Airtable as a slick/modern UX on less sound architecture than force.com, probably shipping features in a breakneck pace.
- andrenotgiant 6y ago
  salesforce.com? can't tell if you're making a joke, recommending SalesForce, or there's another company called force with a different TLD.
  - tthun 6y ago
    Not a Joke. I am recommending Salesforce.com's PaaS offering (used to licensed as force.com, now called "platform" [0]). Expensive, but it is IMHO the best low code cloud platform there is that has got every aspect (Apps, Identity, Security, ACLs, Workflows and Triggers, APIs) right. [0] https://www.salesforce.com/editions-pricing/platform/ https://www.salesforce.com/editions-pricing/platform/
    - zwily 6y ago
      I have never used a Salesforce app that was not terrible. I'm sure it provides lots of value to the business who use it, but it is awful awful for end users it is thrust upon.
      - atonse 6y ago
        My experience with Salesforce is exactly the promise of low code. Because you can get a lot more done without needing to be a software engineer, it empowers a whole extra set of people to build software without having to think in terms of reusability, performance, scalability, or a coherent data model. And you see the results of that. I think as a platform it’s really powerful. (I’ve arrived at that after years of looking at it with disdain). But it’s problematic from our perspective exactly because it throws out anything we consider good habits of software development.
    - the_duke 6y ago
      Just hearing Salesforce should make you run as fast as you can , if you value your sanity as a developer. Salesforce is unbeatable in marketing and sales strategy, but the products are horrible.
Vmody2 6y ago
> - Booleans in the API are `true` or `undefined`. Seriously. But why???
- unixhero 6y ago
  Because they are not real boolean datatype, just strings probably.
  - tluyben2 6y ago
    Wonder what they use underneath; don't most relation dbs implement as int?
    - aidos 6y ago
      When you’re doing dynamic structure in relational dbs (traditionally) options include storing a wide row with all the data types and you choose which column to use, or storing as lowest common denominator (string) and casting in and out at runtime. These days you can work around this stuff with json / schemaless models. Airtable allow switching data types on a column (from memory). Maybe they store everything as string and then the column definition is for display and allowed operations. Hubspot do this (poorly) so they’re forever giving you back things like dates as string of a number representing a date.
alexashka 6y ago
Just curious - what do you use airtable for exactly? When do you need a structured database with many collaborators? Airtable and the like strike me as a database tool for dummies who want 'anyone change anything anytime', which is just a recipe for no one knowing who the hell is changing what and when anymore.
- bobbylarrybobby 6y ago
  "anyone change anything anytime" is much better than "hey can you email me that excel file? I'll make a few changes and then email it back to you" "actually I don't have the latest version, Person X has it and they're currently merging someone else's changes, so be patient"
- xupybd 6y ago
  Yeah it's common in business. Normally it's in a spreadsheet on a shared drive, so this is a step up. Businesses change fast and don't always have internal development resources to create an application to do this sort of thing.
- chrisdone 6y ago
  It’s my understanding that the main selling feature of AirTable is the hard coded views that they offer; calendars, kanban style planners, things like that. The slightly more structured nature of relational tables over spreadsheets lets you implement those fairly reliably.
- auxym 6y ago
  I use the free tier as a collaborative Kanban board for a tiny 5 person team. Airtable allows me to define arbitrary fields for the Kanban cards, which happens to be a premium/paid feature in all the actual Kanban saas tools (Trello, etc).
  - sofixa 6y ago
    It isn't on Jira if you're <10 users, but Jira is a whole lot more than just Kanban and a huge beast.
wdb 6y ago
Yeah, most SaaS solutions have this problem. GitLab wants you to pay $80/user/mo to be able to get dependency scanning or vulnerability scanning. While Github gives you that for free. They could at least include it in their $20/user/month tier.
- maigret 6y ago
  At some point you have to pay a price to maintain a competition in the ecosystem. We all know what happens when there is only a player left. Microsoft can just sink billions in side games like Teams and GitHub at the moment.
  - wdb 6y ago
    Personally, I think these two features should be part of the $20 tier and not the most expensive one. I don't understand why I have to pay $60/user/month more to get some UI integration which I can also get when paying for GitHub Enterprise for similar price as GitLab's $20 tier

grioghar 6y ago

I’m so glad it’s not just me. I have been unimpressed with the over-complication and the...lacking API.

elwell 6y ago

I agree that Airtable is expensive, but I've found their custom app development experience to be quite nice.

tthun 6y ago

Try force.com (fully featured developer account is free with limits), very stable and fully featured PaaS with long tail of features. On a quick review Airtable as a slick/modern UX on less sound architecture than force.com, probably shipping features in a breakneck pace.

andrenotgiant 6y ago
salesforce.com? can't tell if you're making a joke, recommending SalesForce, or there's another company called force with a different TLD.
- tthun 6y ago
  Not a Joke. I am recommending Salesforce.com's PaaS offering (used to licensed as force.com, now called "platform" [0]). Expensive, but it is IMHO the best low code cloud platform there is that has got every aspect (Apps, Identity, Security, ACLs, Workflows and Triggers, APIs) right. [0] https://www.salesforce.com/editions-pricing/platform/ https://www.salesforce.com/editions-pricing/platform/
  - zwily 6y ago
    I have never used a Salesforce app that was not terrible. I'm sure it provides lots of value to the business who use it, but it is awful awful for end users it is thrust upon.
    - atonse 6y ago
      My experience with Salesforce is exactly the promise of low code. Because you can get a lot more done without needing to be a software engineer, it empowers a whole extra set of people to build software without having to think in terms of reusability, performance, scalability, or a coherent data model. And you see the results of that. I think as a platform it’s really powerful. (I’ve arrived at that after years of looking at it with disdain). But it’s problematic from our perspective exactly because it throws out anything we consider good habits of software development.
  - the_duke 6y ago
    Just hearing Salesforce should make you run as fast as you can , if you value your sanity as a developer. Salesforce is unbeatable in marketing and sales strategy, but the products are horrible.

Vmody2 6y ago

> - Booleans in the API are `true` or `undefined`. Seriously. But why???

unixhero 6y ago
Because they are not real boolean datatype, just strings probably.
- tluyben2 6y ago
  Wonder what they use underneath; don't most relation dbs implement as int?
  - aidos 6y ago
    When you’re doing dynamic structure in relational dbs (traditionally) options include storing a wide row with all the data types and you choose which column to use, or storing as lowest common denominator (string) and casting in and out at runtime. These days you can work around this stuff with json / schemaless models. Airtable allow switching data types on a column (from memory). Maybe they store everything as string and then the column definition is for display and allowed operations. Hubspot do this (poorly) so they’re forever giving you back things like dates as string of a number representing a date.

alexashka 6y ago

Just curious - what do you use airtable for exactly? When do you need a structured database with many collaborators? Airtable and the like strike me as a database tool for dummies who want 'anyone change anything anytime', which is just a recipe for no one knowing who the hell is changing what and when anymore.

bobbylarrybobby 6y ago
"anyone change anything anytime" is much better than "hey can you email me that excel file? I'll make a few changes and then email it back to you" "actually I don't have the latest version, Person X has it and they're currently merging someone else's changes, so be patient"
xupybd 6y ago
Yeah it's common in business. Normally it's in a spreadsheet on a shared drive, so this is a step up. Businesses change fast and don't always have internal development resources to create an application to do this sort of thing.
chrisdone 6y ago
It’s my understanding that the main selling feature of AirTable is the hard coded views that they offer; calendars, kanban style planners, things like that. The slightly more structured nature of relational tables over spreadsheets lets you implement those fairly reliably.
auxym 6y ago
I use the free tier as a collaborative Kanban board for a tiny 5 person team. Airtable allows me to define arbitrary fields for the Kanban cards, which happens to be a premium/paid feature in all the actual Kanban saas tools (Trello, etc).
- sofixa 6y ago
  It isn't on Jira if you're <10 users, but Jira is a whole lot more than just Kanban and a huge beast.

wdb 6y ago

Yeah, most SaaS solutions have this problem. GitLab wants you to pay $80/user/mo to be able to get dependency scanning or vulnerability scanning. While Github gives you that for free. They could at least include it in their $20/user/month tier.

maigret 6y ago
At some point you have to pay a price to maintain a competition in the ecosystem. We all know what happens when there is only a player left. Microsoft can just sink billions in side games like Teams and GitHub at the moment.
- wdb 6y ago
  Personally, I think these two features should be part of the $20 tier and not the most expensive one. I don't understand why I have to pay $60/user/month more to get some UI integration which I can also get when paying for GitHub Enterprise for similar price as GitLab's $20 tier