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Off-topic, maybe you have an answer to this: How do the Japanese work so much? I read that they have naps in the office, but still - I think I would burn out su

by manmal 6y ago

Off-topic, maybe you have an answer to this: How do the Japanese work so much? I read that they have naps in the office, but still - I think I would burn out super quick.

tpmx 6y ago
No direct experience with working in Japan, but in Taiwan people rested their heads on a pillow on the work desk to nap for an hour after lunch. So essentially shifting some of the sleep time at home towards sleep time at work. Never quite understood the thinking behind that. My hunch is that I'm not understanding "face" properly.
- manmal 6y ago
  That’s what I was referring to, yes. I heard of a situation during a merger where the Japanese delegation took turns sleeping, while the other delegation was up all day. As a consequence, the Japanese delegation got their way because they had more stamina.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    Sleeping at work is sometimes allowed because it's accepted there is such a chronic lack of sleep generally. If they were taking turns sleeping it means they probably already were overworked and needed a nap. The story sounds like "history is written by the victors" or just more fetishing of Japan.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    No this is different. Lot of Taiwanese companies have the after-lunch rest (source: Taiwanese friends). I never heard as such for Japanese companies.
- SyzygistSix 6y ago
  I've had many years where a short nap after lunch dramatically increases my productivity.
BlargMcLarg 6y ago
Blind guess: they actually are permanently in a state of pseudo burn-out and combat it through various means, a less individualistic mentality and gradually drop their ambition to prevent it from increasing. Also, just in general going at a really slow pace to stay sane.
GuB-42 6y ago
> How do the Japanese work so much? Simple answer, they don't. They spend a lot of time at work looking busy, but they don't actually do that much actual work. For me (a lazy Frenchman), Americans are the hardest working people I know in terms of actual productive work.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
brigandish 6y ago
It's not productive "work", it's desk warming because it's just as important (if not more) to show you're working than do work. Japan is horribly unproductive[1]: > Japan ranks twenty-first for labor productivity among the 36 nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, according to the Japan Productivity Center’s International Comparison of Labor Productivity report. Based on OECD data, the report found that Japan’s per-hour labor productivity in 2018 was $46.8 (equivalent in purchasing power to ¥4,744); this is less than half the $102.3 level in Ireland and roughly 60% the $74.7 level in the United States. The government has raised “work-style reform” as a key task and aimed to lift productivity, but Japan has continued to be dead last among Group of Seven nations since 1970, when survey records were first available. Once I realised that the culture is based on far more on appearance than truth, so many things made sense that hadn't before. [1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-labor-productivity-lowest-in-g7.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-...
- pdimitar 6y ago
  I am not saying the following out of malice or bias because I have no vested interest in having any... but my observation on a lot of Asians has been that they'll work extremely hard to project a good image but not do actual good work. I don't blame the workers of course, I blame the leadership. Japan in particular seems just like the countries of the former Soviet Bloc (like mine -- Bulgaria) where good media propaganda is prioritized much more than actually working on the country's economy.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  I wonder how that is measured. Irish employees don't make unusually good salaries, and their employers don't have unusually high profit margins
  - brigandish 6y ago
    I also wonder. As an aside/anecdote of perhaps dubious quality, I had a mate that worked in the Office of National Statistics in the UK. He said that they'd often come up with figures for things that didn't match expectations, so they'd fudge them in case it caused a fuss. Still, again anecdotally, I can't say that I find Japan a place of particularly efficient work. Long working hours, certainly, but efficiency… not in my experience.

by manmal 6y ago

Off-topic, maybe you have an answer to this: How do the Japanese work so much? I read that they have naps in the office, but still - I think I would burn out super quick.

tpmx 6y ago

No direct experience with working in Japan, but in Taiwan people rested their heads on a pillow on the work desk to nap for an hour after lunch. So essentially shifting some of the sleep time at home towards sleep time at work. Never quite understood the thinking behind that. My hunch is that I'm not understanding "face" properly.

manmal 6y ago
That’s what I was referring to, yes. I heard of a situation during a merger where the Japanese delegation took turns sleeping, while the other delegation was up all day. As a consequence, the Japanese delegation got their way because they had more stamina.
- brigandish 6y ago
  Sleeping at work is sometimes allowed because it's accepted there is such a chronic lack of sleep generally. If they were taking turns sleeping it means they probably already were overworked and needed a nap. The story sounds like "history is written by the victors" or just more fetishing of Japan.
- tasogare 6y ago
  No this is different. Lot of Taiwanese companies have the after-lunch rest (source: Taiwanese friends). I never heard as such for Japanese companies.
SyzygistSix 6y ago
I've had many years where a short nap after lunch dramatically increases my productivity.

BlargMcLarg 6y ago

Blind guess: they actually are permanently in a state of pseudo burn-out and combat it through various means, a less individualistic mentality and gradually drop their ambition to prevent it from increasing. Also, just in general going at a really slow pace to stay sane.

GuB-42 6y ago

> How do the Japanese work so much? Simple answer, they don't. They spend a lot of time at work looking busy, but they don't actually do that much actual work. For me (a lazy Frenchman), Americans are the hardest working people I know in terms of actual productive work.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

brigandish 6y ago

It's not productive "work", it's desk warming because it's just as important (if not more) to show you're working than do work. Japan is horribly unproductive[1]: > Japan ranks twenty-first for labor productivity among the 36 nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, according to the Japan Productivity Center’s International Comparison of Labor Productivity report. Based on OECD data, the report found that Japan’s per-hour labor productivity in 2018 was $46.8 (equivalent in purchasing power to ¥4,744); this is less than half the $102.3 level in Ireland and roughly 60% the $74.7 level in the United States. The government has raised “work-style reform” as a key task and aimed to lift productivity, but Japan has continued to be dead last among Group of Seven nations since 1970, when survey records were first available. Once I realised that the culture is based on far more on appearance than truth, so many things made sense that hadn't before. [1] https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-labor-productivity-lowest-in-g7.html https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-...

pdimitar 6y ago
I am not saying the following out of malice or bias because I have no vested interest in having any... but my observation on a lot of Asians has been that they'll work extremely hard to project a good image but not do actual good work. I don't blame the workers of course, I blame the leadership. Japan in particular seems just like the countries of the former Soviet Bloc (like mine -- Bulgaria) where good media propaganda is prioritized much more than actually working on the country's economy.
missedthecue 6y ago
I wonder how that is measured. Irish employees don't make unusually good salaries, and their employers don't have unusually high profit margins
- brigandish 6y ago
  I also wonder. As an aside/anecdote of perhaps dubious quality, I had a mate that worked in the Office of National Statistics in the UK. He said that they'd often come up with figures for things that didn't match expectations, so they'd fudge them in case it caused a fuss. Still, again anecdotally, I can't say that I find Japan a place of particularly efficient work. Long working hours, certainly, but efficiency… not in my experience.