6 ms·

Has anybody actually met one of these Infuriated .NET developers? I use the .NET stack for pretty much everything I do, and I'm not even slightly worried that

Has anybody actually met one of these Infuriated .NET developers? I use the .NET stack for pretty much everything I do, and I'm not even slightly worried that the next version of Windows will make my life worse. I can't even come up with a way in which they could do so. I get the feeling that there is some PR agency somewhere inventing these stories for some motive of their own.

m0nastic 15y ago
I don't know about "met", but for the past week or so, I've seen lots of "the sky is falling" on Twitter from pissed off .NET developers. I think much of it is an overreaction, but Microsoft's native development story the past few years has given them room for concern. You're correct though, that the idea that there won't be .NET applications being developed and deployed over the next decade is pretty ridiculous. I definitely think this is a PR disaster for Microsoft. Whether warranted or not, if Windows developers feel like they're investing in deprecated technology, there's a chance that what they jump to won't be controlled by Microsoft.
- teyc 15y ago
  there's a chance that what they jump to won't be controlled by Microsoft. ... like HTML and jQuery ?
  - ianl 15y ago
    People are naturally resistent to change
    - teyc 15y ago
      No, I suspect it is a deeper fear. C# and Java devs have always commanded higher rates despite the HTML devs producing better looking apps and cheaper rates. With HTML being a first class citizen, I'm afraid this heralds the end of the .NET gravy train.
      - sukuriant 15y ago
        The private sector with in-house apps pays better than startups? Is that what I'm reading? Forgive me, but I believe I can safely disagree here.
        hello_moto 15y ago
        Maybe you should go to other cities outside Silicon Valley.
        sukuriant 15y ago
        I live in Redmond, and was comparing prices to Florida, where I used to live, actually.
        hello_moto 15y ago
        There are a few things to consider: 1) Seattle is probably the top 3 hi-tech hub in USA (Silicon Valley/SF/SanJose and NYC as the other 2). 2) Are you comparing .NET dev in Redmond vs Rails dev in Redmond? Or Rails dev in Redmond and .NET dev in Florida?
        sukuriant 15y ago
        .NET in both places, actually, and start-up dev in SV (which I suspect makes a cost-of-living similiar pay to myself)
      - heimidal 15y ago
        I have quite a few friends doing .NET for a living, and I can safely say that I make more than them using Ruby at work (at an ad agency, no less). They would definitely not call their jobs a "gravy train."
        hello_moto 15y ago
        One word: outliers.
  - bmj 15y ago
    Keep in mind that many C# MVC devs are well accustomed to this. The default MVC project template includes jQuery.
jasonlotito 15y ago
Yes, actually. A recent hire. Apparently was big on MS development, their company was a big partner, really pushed MS technologies, basically drank the kool-aid. Ended up rather bitter about the entire thing. Asked him just this week about Silverlight, and related a few stories. Is he infuriated? Not anymore. Mostly because he's moved on. * I can't get into specifics, mostly because it was just a conversation, but you could sense the resentment and the feeling of betrayal.
moomin 15y ago
I think the problem is that a lot of .NET developers have felt for some time that the platform is running out of steam. PR disasters like this just provide a focal point for that, more general, anxiety. As for why it feels like that, I suspect that different developers would have different answers. For me, there's the abandonment of the Iron* projects, the lack of a decent .NET Javascript, and the weird need-hate relationship Microsoft has with its open source developers.
- jordan0day 15y ago
  Before all this Win8 broughaha, I don't think anyone was considering .Net to be "running out of steam". The Iron* projects were disappointing to see get dropped, but they never really were first-class citizens to begin with. In fact, if anything, over the past few years I'd say the general sentiment has been that .Net has now eclipsed the JVM as the "best" platform available. Obviously not being able to deploy to other OSes (ignoring mono, of course) was a problem, but not a big one for a lot of folks. C# is a language a lot of people really enjoy using, and F# has excited a lot of people and since it's "official" gets accepted in stodgy corporate environments quicker than some of the alternatives (Scala comes to mind). That said, yes, in the last month or two I have been surprised (but not disappointed) to see that MS seems to be reinvesting in C++. I'm a little confused by this Win8 stuff, though. I think MS focus on Silverlight over the past year or two was misplaced, when they should have been focusing on WPF first, and now I'm not really sure what the status of WPF is with "Jupiter".
  - moomin 15y ago
    Reading codebetter, you can watch one after another alpha geek move his attention to python, to ruby, and to node. Not that many seem interested in jumping to Java (although Mike Rettig clearly has). I suspect that's simply because Java just feels plain painful to anyone who has ever used LINQ. F# is cool, however.
ghurlman 15y ago
I get the same feeling - I've lived on the .Net stack for 10 years, and I'm not even slightly annoyed. Chances are, if you make your life on .Net, you have corporate clients. They won't move on to Windows 8 for years - and they certainly aren't moving off of .Net on the server side any time soon.
- drawkbox 15y ago
  True but Microsoft does roll their technology fronts every decade or so. MFC, COM+, VB, ATL, etc. Still around but not the forefront strategy. C# is locked in for good though, declarative/markup UIs same thing. With every new technology there is more opportunity to those that enter it early.
mikecomstock 15y ago
Since this post made it to the front page of HN, I'd say it's got to infuriate at least some people. That, or a large HN demographic likes the report that .NET developers are infuriated? This seems much more likely to me.
- chc 15y ago
  Or they think it's interesting enough to be worth an upvote. I find it strange, the idea that you only upvote stories that make you happy.
josephcooney 15y ago
I'm a .NET dev. I wouldn't say I was infuriated, but annoyed/disappointed probably covers it.
j_baker 15y ago
I think this is more a case of journalists sensationalizing a relatively dull case. Think of .net developers as slightly miffed and apprehensive rather than infuriated, and this becomes a more reasonable story. That said, I think there's reason to be apprehensive. I mean, .net is a Microsoft product. It's never a good sign when you have to press a product's maker for information about how great said product is and how central it is to what they're doing. I'm not saying .net is going to disappear in Windows 8, but it certainly sounds like Microsoft is trying to de-emphasize it at this point.
taylr 15y ago
I have to agree here.. Anyone who has worked with Microsoft technologies and ventured in to Silverlight land KNEW it was not something to bank on. Slow maturity and lack of community, this product was dead from day one. I'm glad they are moving towards HTML5 as their presentation layer standard. I've been doing this for months now anyway, like most .NET (ASP) developers.

m0nastic 15y ago

I don't know about "met", but for the past week or so, I've seen lots of "the sky is falling" on Twitter from pissed off .NET developers. I think much of it is an overreaction, but Microsoft's native development story the past few years has given them room for concern. You're correct though, that the idea that there won't be .NET applications being developed and deployed over the next decade is pretty ridiculous. I definitely think this is a PR disaster for Microsoft. Whether warranted or not, if Windows developers feel like they're investing in deprecated technology, there's a chance that what they jump to won't be controlled by Microsoft.

teyc 15y ago
there's a chance that what they jump to won't be controlled by Microsoft. ... like HTML and jQuery ?
- ianl 15y ago
  People are naturally resistent to change
  - teyc 15y ago
    No, I suspect it is a deeper fear. C# and Java devs have always commanded higher rates despite the HTML devs producing better looking apps and cheaper rates. With HTML being a first class citizen, I'm afraid this heralds the end of the .NET gravy train.
    - sukuriant 15y ago
      The private sector with in-house apps pays better than startups? Is that what I'm reading? Forgive me, but I believe I can safely disagree here.
      - hello_moto 15y ago
        Maybe you should go to other cities outside Silicon Valley.
        sukuriant 15y ago
        I live in Redmond, and was comparing prices to Florida, where I used to live, actually.
        hello_moto 15y ago
        There are a few things to consider: 1) Seattle is probably the top 3 hi-tech hub in USA (Silicon Valley/SF/SanJose and NYC as the other 2). 2) Are you comparing .NET dev in Redmond vs Rails dev in Redmond? Or Rails dev in Redmond and .NET dev in Florida?
        sukuriant 15y ago
        .NET in both places, actually, and start-up dev in SV (which I suspect makes a cost-of-living similiar pay to myself)
    - heimidal 15y ago
      I have quite a few friends doing .NET for a living, and I can safely say that I make more than them using Ruby at work (at an ad agency, no less). They would definitely not call their jobs a "gravy train."
      - hello_moto 15y ago
        One word: outliers.
- bmj 15y ago
  Keep in mind that many C# MVC devs are well accustomed to this. The default MVC project template includes jQuery.

jasonlotito 15y ago

Yes, actually. A recent hire. Apparently was big on MS development, their company was a big partner, really pushed MS technologies, basically drank the kool-aid. Ended up rather bitter about the entire thing. Asked him just this week about Silverlight, and related a few stories. Is he infuriated? Not anymore. Mostly because he's moved on. * I can't get into specifics, mostly because it was just a conversation, but you could sense the resentment and the feeling of betrayal.

moomin 15y ago

I think the problem is that a lot of .NET developers have felt for some time that the platform is running out of steam. PR disasters like this just provide a focal point for that, more general, anxiety. As for why it feels like that, I suspect that different developers would have different answers. For me, there's the abandonment of the Iron* projects, the lack of a decent .NET Javascript, and the weird need-hate relationship Microsoft has with its open source developers.

jordan0day 15y ago
Before all this Win8 broughaha, I don't think anyone was considering .Net to be "running out of steam". The Iron* projects were disappointing to see get dropped, but they never really were first-class citizens to begin with. In fact, if anything, over the past few years I'd say the general sentiment has been that .Net has now eclipsed the JVM as the "best" platform available. Obviously not being able to deploy to other OSes (ignoring mono, of course) was a problem, but not a big one for a lot of folks. C# is a language a lot of people really enjoy using, and F# has excited a lot of people and since it's "official" gets accepted in stodgy corporate environments quicker than some of the alternatives (Scala comes to mind). That said, yes, in the last month or two I have been surprised (but not disappointed) to see that MS seems to be reinvesting in C++. I'm a little confused by this Win8 stuff, though. I think MS focus on Silverlight over the past year or two was misplaced, when they should have been focusing on WPF first, and now I'm not really sure what the status of WPF is with "Jupiter".
- moomin 15y ago
  Reading codebetter, you can watch one after another alpha geek move his attention to python, to ruby, and to node. Not that many seem interested in jumping to Java (although Mike Rettig clearly has). I suspect that's simply because Java just feels plain painful to anyone who has ever used LINQ. F# is cool, however.

ghurlman 15y ago

I get the same feeling - I've lived on the .Net stack for 10 years, and I'm not even slightly annoyed. Chances are, if you make your life on .Net, you have corporate clients. They won't move on to Windows 8 for years - and they certainly aren't moving off of .Net on the server side any time soon.

drawkbox 15y ago
True but Microsoft does roll their technology fronts every decade or so. MFC, COM+, VB, ATL, etc. Still around but not the forefront strategy. C# is locked in for good though, declarative/markup UIs same thing. With every new technology there is more opportunity to those that enter it early.

mikecomstock 15y ago

Since this post made it to the front page of HN, I'd say it's got to infuriate at least some people. That, or a large HN demographic likes the report that .NET developers are infuriated? This seems much more likely to me.

chc 15y ago
Or they think it's interesting enough to be worth an upvote. I find it strange, the idea that you only upvote stories that make you happy.

josephcooney 15y ago

I'm a .NET dev. I wouldn't say I was infuriated, but annoyed/disappointed probably covers it.

j_baker 15y ago

I think this is more a case of journalists sensationalizing a relatively dull case. Think of .net developers as slightly miffed and apprehensive rather than infuriated, and this becomes a more reasonable story. That said, I think there's reason to be apprehensive. I mean, .net is a Microsoft product. It's never a good sign when you have to press a product's maker for information about how great said product is and how central it is to what they're doing. I'm not saying .net is going to disappear in Windows 8, but it certainly sounds like Microsoft is trying to de-emphasize it at this point.

taylr 15y ago

I have to agree here.. Anyone who has worked with Microsoft technologies and ventured in to Silverlight land KNEW it was not something to bank on. Slow maturity and lack of community, this product was dead from day one. I'm glad they are moving towards HTML5 as their presentation layer standard. I've been doing this for months now anyway, like most .NET (ASP) developers.