3 ms·

Call me niave, but what is wrong with conversion therapy in theory? I get the historic roots of it being linked with anti-gay/LGBT activities and it being prob

Call me niave, but what is wrong with conversion therapy in theory? I get the historic roots of it being linked with anti-gay/LGBT activities and it being problematic about 'fixing' what essentially are healthy sexual functioning (e.g. it's fine to be gay). But it's not black and white and surely 'some' gay/bi men and women suffer distress and would prefer to be straight. And likewise for 'trans' children and adults - perhaps there are effective ways to reduce/eliminate gender dysphoria. Do such methods really always have to seem bad. Note: I am neutral on this / have many gay friends. It's purely from a theoretical perspective.

detaro 6y ago
"In theory" questions are a bit moot if the practice has never worked, and are at least adjacent to "is brainwashing/slavery/... always so bad if the victim thinks its happy with it" from an ethics perspective. Especially if the "in theory" arguments are then used to defend the abusive/broken real world practices, and as an excuse to not fix external causes of distress. I.e. "actually, being gay is ok" as a position of society is way more effective for good outcomes than any attempt at "treatment" ever has been, and the vast majority of arguments along "treatments" are being used to attempt to slow or reverse that development.
tesseractive 6y ago
Well, I know both gay and trans people who have survived conversion therapy, but there's a really high incidence of suicide among people who have been through it. Also, the people I know have described literal torture as being part of existing conversion therapy techniques. There is also no evidence of it actually working. All of these things seem to counsel against conversion therapy being an accepted practice.
lsiebert 6y ago
It's not been shown to be effective, there's no reason to change it, and it can be harmful to the mental health of LGBTQ+ folks. That's what the American Psychiatric Association says: "https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/apa-reiterates-strong-opposition-to-conversion-therapy https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/apa-reiter..."
throwaway53453 6y ago
Conversion therapy basically pseudoscience mixed with a bit of brainwashing and physical violence. I don't believe that is what Amazon is banning here.
- SunlightEdge 6y ago
  Ok. Thanks for all the above answers. I appreciate it. To add to it, my only thoughts were for people who wanted to be straight /cis gendered but were having very distressing thoughts/feelings that they might be gay/trans. But I realise what I may be describing might better be described as an anxiety disorder and so a seperate point. I'm sure doctors would pick up on this too. Hmmmm ok I'll do some thinking.

detaro 6y ago

"In theory" questions are a bit moot if the practice has never worked, and are at least adjacent to "is brainwashing/slavery/... always so bad if the victim thinks its happy with it" from an ethics perspective. Especially if the "in theory" arguments are then used to defend the abusive/broken real world practices, and as an excuse to not fix external causes of distress. I.e. "actually, being gay is ok" as a position of society is way more effective for good outcomes than any attempt at "treatment" ever has been, and the vast majority of arguments along "treatments" are being used to attempt to slow or reverse that development.

tesseractive 6y ago

Well, I know both gay and trans people who have survived conversion therapy, but there's a really high incidence of suicide among people who have been through it. Also, the people I know have described literal torture as being part of existing conversion therapy techniques. There is also no evidence of it actually working. All of these things seem to counsel against conversion therapy being an accepted practice.

lsiebert 6y ago

It's not been shown to be effective, there's no reason to change it, and it can be harmful to the mental health of LGBTQ+ folks. That's what the American Psychiatric Association says: "https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/apa-reiterates-strong-opposition-to-conversion-therapy https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/apa-reiter..."

throwaway53453 6y ago

Conversion therapy basically pseudoscience mixed with a bit of brainwashing and physical violence. I don't believe that is what Amazon is banning here.

SunlightEdge 6y ago
Ok. Thanks for all the above answers. I appreciate it. To add to it, my only thoughts were for people who wanted to be straight /cis gendered but were having very distressing thoughts/feelings that they might be gay/trans. But I realise what I may be describing might better be described as an anxiety disorder and so a seperate point. I'm sure doctors would pick up on this too. Hmmmm ok I'll do some thinking.