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We have even smaller vehicles currently powered by 50ccm ICE in Germany. You only need a scooter license for them and they are being driven mostly by elderly or
by foepys 6y ago
We have even smaller vehicles currently powered by 50ccm ICE in Germany. You only need a scooter license for them and they are being driven mostly by elderly or disabled people that either cannot get or don't want to pay about 1.500€ for a full drivers license for cars. There aren't many of them on the road, I'd say less than 0.1%, but they do exist and I see one at least once a week.
Another advantage is that they don't need to get inspected every other year by the authorities (TÜV) and due to the standard 50ccm two-stroke scooter motor they are really cheap to maintain.
- aww_dang 6y agoWhat are the brand and model names?
- foepys 6y agoAixam is one manufacturer and based in France as I'm now finding out. The models are relatively expensive, though, because they are not produced in high numbers. https://www.aixam.com/ https://www.aixam.com/
- riffraff 6y ago> driven mostly by elderly or disabled people how odd, in Italy small ICE vehicles in this category (which I believe is called "Light quadricycles" or L6e) seem to be marketed mostly to kids from affluent families. .
- llarsson 6y agoThat demographic makes for a more positive marketing campaign. Look at ads for fashion that actually targets older people. It will also feature people in their early thirties, at most. Everybody still knows exactly what the intention is.
- riffraff 6y agoI know what you mean, but I meant that it's mostly young kids who "buy" them, it's become almost a stereotype.
- rsj_hn 6y agoI wonder how much horsepower you can get out of 50cc if you max it out with all the *chargers. Sounds like a cool opportunity for regulatory arbitrage.
- gene_kreemers 6y agoUnfortunately you can’t turbocharge or supercharge a two-stroke. There’s a material amount of time during the cycle where both intake and exhaust port are open at the same time. If you use any type of forced induction it would blow the fuel/air mixture straight out the cylinder before it could be ignited. You can however use a tuned pipe to cause a pressure wave to reflect back up the pipe and compress the mixture, but that’s usually limited to a pretty narrow powerband
- rsj_hn 6y agoAhh, so the special regs only apply to 2 strokes? I thought they were based on displacement
- foepys 6y agoThey're also valid for 4 strokes but generally speaking 4-strokes have lower torque at high rpm and since it's hard to get much power out of 50ccm anyways, they tend to be 2-stroke.
- rsj_hn 6y agoI remember Honda made waves with low displacement four stroke engines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Super_Cub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Super_Cub
- numpad0 6y agoI think he’s talking inherent technical limitations, not regulations. I wonder if it still applies if there was a pre-burning occurring in the middle of intake manifolds
- cmckn 6y ago1,500 for a drivers license?? I had no idea. It cost me about $30 USD to get my first license in Alabama. Washington state does taxation differently so I think it was about $120. You learn something new every day!
- ptr 6y agoIf you include driving lessons, the full package can easily go for 3-4000 EUR in Sweden.
- cmckn 6y agoWoah! I guess having a drivers license is more necessary in most of the US, so they’re more easily obtained? That’s wild.
- stefan_ 6y ago"so" as in implies? No, someone made an explicit choice to compromise the education in favor of accessibility and it has caused tons of issues.
- resonantjacket5 6y agoI mean if you don't have a drivers license in usa you practically can't buy groceries nor have a job unlike in most other countries.
- distances 6y agoThe licenses are absolutely required in the more sparsely populated areas in Europe, going without license is only possible in major metropolitan areas. Europe just places a relatively high bar for driving skills. You do see the outcome in road safety and much more orderly driving behaviour (with the usual caveat that Europe is diverse and this applies more to some regions than some others yadda yadda).
- angry_octet 6y ago
- CydeWeys 6y ago> Another advantage is that they don't need to get inspected every other year by the authorities (TÜV) and due to the standard 50ccm two-stroke scooter motor they are really cheap to maintain. Ouch, these vehicles must be wrecking hell on local air quality.