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I think they are. Most new electric cars are like at least 250 mile range, and Tesla's flagship Model S starts out at over 400 mile range (and their 520 mile ra

I think they are. Most new electric cars are like at least 250 mile range, and Tesla's flagship Model S starts out at over 400 mile range (and their 520 mile range version will be available in about 12 months... that's more than most conventionally fueled cars). Charge speed is fine (you'll spend less time overall than you spend at gas stations) and safety is overall superior. Battery life is also not a concern as the battery in these vehicles will outlast the car. I just don't think people realize that batteries actually are plenty good enough now. No breakthrough is needed. It's about driving down the cost to as low as possible and scaling out charging standards and networks. And ultimately, just banning new conventional cars outright (starting out by requiring all new vehicles to have a plug in a few years).

literallycancer 6y ago
Let's see. A 2011 diesel sedan can go about 900km before refueling. There's maybe 2 charging stations within 50 km of my central European location. So, the best experience I can have with an electric car right now is to spend a 100k on a car that doesn't work unless I live next to the charging station, or takes a day to charge. Oh and the car that I already have is not designed by Californians, so there's no stupid shit like a trunk full of snow every time you open it. I think I'll still go with the autism causing, dinosaur burning dumpster fire on wheels for now.
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  That would explain why Electric cars aren’t popular in Norway... oh wait: https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/02/norway-at-79-1-plugin-electric-market-share-in-february/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/02/norway-at-79-1-plugin-e...
  - literallycancer 6y ago
    Norway just taxes fossil fuel cars so much that it's cheaper to buy a Tesla. They are like a Gulf state. Low population and a lot of oil. Plus the abundant hydro. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from that.
rsj_hn 6y ago
> (you'll spend less time overall than you spend at gas stations) Curious how you are calculating this. I usually spend about 60-120 seconds refilling my tank once every 300 miles. (15 gallon tank, about 30 mpg). Because gas stations are everywhere, I never have to plan a specific route based on availability of gas stations, or use an app to find where the stations are, or even think about how much gas I have, as I know there is a station on the way to wherever I am going, and all I need to do is pull over. I even have the luxury of refusing to stop at gas stations on the left side of the road because there will be another station a block down on the right side. But with electric you have to go out of your way to find a charging station and it takes longer than 100 seconds to fully charge your car. So how can it be less time overall?
- clouddrover 6y ago
  > So how can it be less time overall? If you can charge at home overnight (or at work during the day) then you won't need to go anywhere else.
  - rsj_hn 6y ago
    If a car never breaks down, then you don't need to waste time at a mechanic, either.
    - samcheng 6y ago
      This metaphor doesn’t make sense to me. As a matter of course, a gasoline car needs gasoline; unless you live on a farm with delivered fuel, that means going to the gas station for it. An electric car needs only electricity to operate, which is already distributed via wires to everyone’s home. Both cars need tires; electric cars also need significantly less scheduled maintenance. No oil changes, no timing belt, etc.
      - rsj_hn 6y ago
        The point being that estimating the expectation of something by excluding an important part of the event space yields a false estimate. No one believes that everyone always charges their cars at home and that charging stations are not needed, otherwise there would be no demand to build them. But when called out on the inconvenience of these stations there is a retreat to "oh, I only charge at home" and so that is the only case in which to take charge convenience into account.
clouddrover 6y ago
No, you need to think about what it means when all cars are electric. Current charging speeds lead to long queues at chargers like this: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-... No car on the road at the moment is capable of making full use of 350 kW CCS chargers (the Porsche Taycan comes closest at 270 kW). Ideally you'd want a flat charging curve at 350 kW to allow for more cars to be served by each charger. If you had a flat charging curve at 350 kW it would take about 13 minutes to go from 0 to 80% state of charge on a 100 kWh battery. Still slower than fueling an ICE car and still not full battery capacity, but you should be able handle 4 cars per hour per charger.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > you should be able handle 4 cars per hour per charger. It's still abysmally slow.
  - clouddrover 6y ago
    Yes, there will still need to be more charge points than there are fuel pumps but your charging won't necessarily be exclusively at DC fast chargers. It will be a mix of DC and AC charging. For example, if you're on a road trip you might DC fast charge during the day and then slow charge overnight at a hotel so you start the day with a full battery.
    - erik_seaberg 6y ago
      I guess it's feasible, but as of last year I've never seen a charger at a hotel. My office had maybe a dozen, which is already not enough—EV drivers were required to go outside and move their cars after a few hours. I don't know how often someone who needs one is screwed.
      - Robotbeat 6y ago
        I always charge at my AirBNB. Just need an external 120V outlet. An RV-style outlet would work for L2 power levels. That’s not that uncommon.

literallycancer 6y ago

Let's see. A 2011 diesel sedan can go about 900km before refueling. There's maybe 2 charging stations within 50 km of my central European location. So, the best experience I can have with an electric car right now is to spend a 100k on a car that doesn't work unless I live next to the charging station, or takes a day to charge. Oh and the car that I already have is not designed by Californians, so there's no stupid shit like a trunk full of snow every time you open it. I think I'll still go with the autism causing, dinosaur burning dumpster fire on wheels for now.

Robotbeat 6y ago
That would explain why Electric cars aren’t popular in Norway... oh wait: https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/02/norway-at-79-1-plugin-electric-market-share-in-february/ https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/02/norway-at-79-1-plugin-e...
- literallycancer 6y ago
  Norway just taxes fossil fuel cars so much that it's cheaper to buy a Tesla. They are like a Gulf state. Low population and a lot of oil. Plus the abundant hydro. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from that.

rsj_hn 6y ago

> (you'll spend less time overall than you spend at gas stations) Curious how you are calculating this. I usually spend about 60-120 seconds refilling my tank once every 300 miles. (15 gallon tank, about 30 mpg). Because gas stations are everywhere, I never have to plan a specific route based on availability of gas stations, or use an app to find where the stations are, or even think about how much gas I have, as I know there is a station on the way to wherever I am going, and all I need to do is pull over. I even have the luxury of refusing to stop at gas stations on the left side of the road because there will be another station a block down on the right side. But with electric you have to go out of your way to find a charging station and it takes longer than 100 seconds to fully charge your car. So how can it be less time overall?

clouddrover 6y ago
> So how can it be less time overall? If you can charge at home overnight (or at work during the day) then you won't need to go anywhere else.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  If a car never breaks down, then you don't need to waste time at a mechanic, either.
  - samcheng 6y ago
    This metaphor doesn’t make sense to me. As a matter of course, a gasoline car needs gasoline; unless you live on a farm with delivered fuel, that means going to the gas station for it. An electric car needs only electricity to operate, which is already distributed via wires to everyone’s home. Both cars need tires; electric cars also need significantly less scheduled maintenance. No oil changes, no timing belt, etc.
    - rsj_hn 6y ago
      The point being that estimating the expectation of something by excluding an important part of the event space yields a false estimate. No one believes that everyone always charges their cars at home and that charging stations are not needed, otherwise there would be no demand to build them. But when called out on the inconvenience of these stations there is a retreat to "oh, I only charge at home" and so that is the only case in which to take charge convenience into account.

clouddrover 6y ago

No, you need to think about what it means when all cars are electric. Current charging speeds lead to long queues at chargers like this: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-... No car on the road at the moment is capable of making full use of 350 kW CCS chargers (the Porsche Taycan comes closest at 270 kW). Ideally you'd want a flat charging curve at 350 kW to allow for more cars to be served by each charger. If you had a flat charging curve at 350 kW it would take about 13 minutes to go from 0 to 80% state of charge on a 100 kWh battery. Still slower than fueling an ICE car and still not full battery capacity, but you should be able handle 4 cars per hour per charger.

dmitriid 6y ago
> you should be able handle 4 cars per hour per charger. It's still abysmally slow.
- clouddrover 6y ago
  Yes, there will still need to be more charge points than there are fuel pumps but your charging won't necessarily be exclusively at DC fast chargers. It will be a mix of DC and AC charging. For example, if you're on a road trip you might DC fast charge during the day and then slow charge overnight at a hotel so you start the day with a full battery.
  - erik_seaberg 6y ago
    I guess it's feasible, but as of last year I've never seen a charger at a hotel. My office had maybe a dozen, which is already not enough—EV drivers were required to go outside and move their cars after a few hours. I don't know how often someone who needs one is screwed.
    - Robotbeat 6y ago
      I always charge at my AirBNB. Just need an external 120V outlet. An RV-style outlet would work for L2 power levels. That’s not that uncommon.