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54% supported Blake Neff being fired. Slightly more than supported unspecified social consequences. Why is firing anyone for any reason acceptable if lost jobs

54% supported Blake Neff being fired. Slightly more than supported unspecified social consequences. Why is firing anyone for any reason acceptable if lost jobs mean dead kids? Companies often say something about the fired employee not representing the company's values when they fire someone who offended members of the public. And seeing how many people even claim they were fired because of public pressure would establish an upper bound. Canceling would need a consistent definition to say anything about it. But it shouldn't surprise you some people aren't inclined to restrict freedom of association and freedom of speech without compelling evidence.

throwaway894345 6y ago
> 54% supported Blake Neff being fired. Slightly more than supported unspecified social consequences. I'm guessing people interpreted the question as "Do you think posting racist remarks is a fireable offense?". I don't think he should be fired because a Twitter mob harassed his employer. Ask them about David Shor and see what happens. > Why is firing anyone for any reason acceptable if lost jobs mean dead kids? I don't think it is acceptable, and neither do many other lefties with the notable exception for cancel culture--then it's just Social Consequences (TM). > Companies often say something about the fired employee not representing the company's values when they fire someone who offended members of the public. And seeing how many people even claim they were fired because of public pressure would establish an upper bound. Maybe, but it's still going to be a slog to get that data. Good luck to any researcher who is investigating this, but I'm not holding my breath. Probably a better approach would be to look at periodic surveys that ask "How comfortable do you feel talking about X?" every few years, and look at how the results change over time. I'm guessing these exist. Maybe the effect of cancel culture is actually smaller than I'm expecting? Who knows? > Canceling would need a consistent definition to say anything about it. No, it just means we need to be clear when we discuss it. As previously mentioned, I'm talking about ordinary people being terminated because of an organized harassment campaign. > But it shouldn't surprise you some people aren't inclined to restrict freedom of association and freedom of speech without compelling evidence. Nor should they be. But a harassment campaign for the express purpose of having an employee terminated because they offended you isn't "free speech" any more than any other kind of harassment.
- deleted 6y ago
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- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Public outcries have underlying causes. Justified or not. Separating the outcry from the reason for it isn't an accurate model. What you call cancel culture isn't limited to 1 political group. You haven't provided any evidence of ordinary people being terminated because of organize harassment campaigns. And you keep equating self censorship to cancellation. Calling for someone to resign or be fired isn't harassment.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    > Public outcries have underlying causes. Justified or not. Separating the outcry from the reason for it isn't an accurate model. In the Neff question there is no outcry in the first place. The question posits that Neff was fired by his employer as a result of CNN's revelation. That's the whole point; the question reads like "Do you think Neff should have been terminated for his conduct?", not "Do you think Neff should have been terminated due to public pressure?". The former isn't cancel culture, the latter is. > What you call cancel culture isn't limited to 1 political group. No, it's not. Conservatives cancelled the Dixie Chicks circa 2003 and Kaepernick just a few years ago. I'm not aware of any cancellations of ordinary people, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were a handful. > You haven't provided any evidence of ordinary people being terminated because of organize harassment campaigns. And you keep equating self censorship to cancellation. David Shor and Emmanuel Cafferty spring to mind. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firin... https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove... > Calling for someone to resign or be fired isn't harassment. Harassment: aggressive pressure or intimidation. Call it what you want, but a rose by any other name...

throwaway894345 6y ago

> 54% supported Blake Neff being fired. Slightly more than supported unspecified social consequences. I'm guessing people interpreted the question as "Do you think posting racist remarks is a fireable offense?". I don't think he should be fired because a Twitter mob harassed his employer. Ask them about David Shor and see what happens. > Why is firing anyone for any reason acceptable if lost jobs mean dead kids? I don't think it is acceptable, and neither do many other lefties with the notable exception for cancel culture--then it's just Social Consequences (TM). > Companies often say something about the fired employee not representing the company's values when they fire someone who offended members of the public. And seeing how many people even claim they were fired because of public pressure would establish an upper bound. Maybe, but it's still going to be a slog to get that data. Good luck to any researcher who is investigating this, but I'm not holding my breath. Probably a better approach would be to look at periodic surveys that ask "How comfortable do you feel talking about X?" every few years, and look at how the results change over time. I'm guessing these exist. Maybe the effect of cancel culture is actually smaller than I'm expecting? Who knows? > Canceling would need a consistent definition to say anything about it. No, it just means we need to be clear when we discuss it. As previously mentioned, I'm talking about ordinary people being terminated because of an organized harassment campaign. > But it shouldn't surprise you some people aren't inclined to restrict freedom of association and freedom of speech without compelling evidence. Nor should they be. But a harassment campaign for the express purpose of having an employee terminated because they offended you isn't "free speech" any more than any other kind of harassment.

deleted 6y ago
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pseudalopex 6y ago
Public outcries have underlying causes. Justified or not. Separating the outcry from the reason for it isn't an accurate model. What you call cancel culture isn't limited to 1 political group. You haven't provided any evidence of ordinary people being terminated because of organize harassment campaigns. And you keep equating self censorship to cancellation. Calling for someone to resign or be fired isn't harassment.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > Public outcries have underlying causes. Justified or not. Separating the outcry from the reason for it isn't an accurate model. In the Neff question there is no outcry in the first place. The question posits that Neff was fired by his employer as a result of CNN's revelation. That's the whole point; the question reads like "Do you think Neff should have been terminated for his conduct?", not "Do you think Neff should have been terminated due to public pressure?". The former isn't cancel culture, the latter is. > What you call cancel culture isn't limited to 1 political group. No, it's not. Conservatives cancelled the Dixie Chicks circa 2003 and Kaepernick just a few years ago. I'm not aware of any cancellations of ordinary people, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were a handful. > You haven't provided any evidence of ordinary people being terminated because of organize harassment campaigns. And you keep equating self censorship to cancellation. David Shor and Emmanuel Cafferty spring to mind. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firin... https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove... > Calling for someone to resign or be fired isn't harassment. Harassment: aggressive pressure or intimidation. Call it what you want, but a rose by any other name...