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The difference is that a single bodyguard at a concert can quit or not, and likely won't (to pay rent). The Ethereum miners have unionized, however, so now you

The difference is that a single bodyguard at a concert can quit or not, and likely won't (to pay rent). The Ethereum miners have unionized, however, so now you are negotiating with the miner unions to pay what they think is their "fair share." These people are spending millions of dollars in electricity keeping things ticking away. If they stop, Ethereum's vested interest drops significantly. Since it is a fiat currency, less participants make it, unfortunately, less valuable. Telling 60% of holders their currency (or income toward driving that currency) is not how you keep them on your side, just like old mining town scrip is only worthwhile if the mine works. The second the mine shuts down on a union strike, the scrip becomes paper. On a personal note, I hope the miners get their due, because it was the initial philosophy of Ethereum. If they don't, I am curious to see how Ethereum moves w/r/t proof of stake vs proof of work guarantees. PoS seems at odds with the initial platform, and possibly long-term problematic for their "contracts-first" architecture.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
>>The Ethereum miners have unionized, however, so now you are negotiating with the miner unions to pay what they think is their "fair share." Unlike with employers and real world unions, the Ethereum network is not bound by labor laws to negotiate exclusively with unionized miners, or refrain from replacing them with non-unionized miners. Without those laws, unions are pretty powerless, which is why the late 19th century had such low unionization rates. >>I hope the miners get their due, because it was the initial philosophy of Ethereum. The initial plan of Ethereum was to launch with Proof of Work, and very quickly afterwards switch to Proof of Stake. Miners have already gotten much more time to earn from ETH issuance than was originally planned.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  > The initial plan of Ethereum was to launch with Proof of Work, and very quickly afterwards switch to Proof of Stake And that’s the problem... it’s a bait and switch, because the miners had to bear the capital costs of investing in mining rigs, which would suddenly lose a lot of value in a switch to PoS. I think this is the original sin of Ethereum, and the network will be forever plagued by conflict because of it.
  - nvlr 6y ago
    Not really a bait of switch though since Ethereum has always been very clear that this is the plan. Anyone who bought a rig should have known that they had a limited investment horizon.
cachvico 6y ago
The miners do not give Ethereum its value; the market does.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  It has no value without security and transactibility which is what the miners provide.
  - rcxdude 6y ago
    Not in proof of stake (which provides it through stakers instead), which is what this whole thing is about.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Well, this is about a 51% attack by the PoW miners and PoW is the law of the land. That’s why I replied in that way.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    They are paid fairly in exchange for providing it. If the current set of miners decide that they don't like Ethereum anymore then those profits are sitting on the table for anyone to take.
woah 6y ago
You think that proof of work mining was the initial philosophy of Ethereum? It’s the exact opposite. Ethereum was always intended to be proof of stake, they just couldn’t get it shipped in time to launch, and then the schedule slipped a bunch more.
shawnz 6y ago
If the current group of Ethereum miners decide to stop mining, why wouldn't new parties come in to take the profits they are leaving behind?
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  It’s not like there’s a giant pool of mining hardware waiting in the wings to take over... I think we can assume that all hardware is always in use mining something as long as marginal revenue exceeds marginal cost.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    Ethereum is typically mined on GPUs so I would argue there really is a giant pool of hardware waiting to take over. On Bitcoin where ASIC mining is common that is indeed a concern, but consider even then, each hardware owner has stronger incentives to just lie about participating in such a strike while keeping the increased profits for themselves.

CryptoPunk 6y ago

>>The Ethereum miners have unionized, however, so now you are negotiating with the miner unions to pay what they think is their "fair share." Unlike with employers and real world unions, the Ethereum network is not bound by labor laws to negotiate exclusively with unionized miners, or refrain from replacing them with non-unionized miners. Without those laws, unions are pretty powerless, which is why the late 19th century had such low unionization rates. >>I hope the miners get their due, because it was the initial philosophy of Ethereum. The initial plan of Ethereum was to launch with Proof of Work, and very quickly afterwards switch to Proof of Stake. Miners have already gotten much more time to earn from ETH issuance than was originally planned.

jkhdigital 6y ago
> The initial plan of Ethereum was to launch with Proof of Work, and very quickly afterwards switch to Proof of Stake And that’s the problem... it’s a bait and switch, because the miners had to bear the capital costs of investing in mining rigs, which would suddenly lose a lot of value in a switch to PoS. I think this is the original sin of Ethereum, and the network will be forever plagued by conflict because of it.
- nvlr 6y ago
  Not really a bait of switch though since Ethereum has always been very clear that this is the plan. Anyone who bought a rig should have known that they had a limited investment horizon.

cachvico 6y ago

The miners do not give Ethereum its value; the market does.

arcticbull 6y ago
It has no value without security and transactibility which is what the miners provide.
- rcxdude 6y ago
  Not in proof of stake (which provides it through stakers instead), which is what this whole thing is about.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Well, this is about a 51% attack by the PoW miners and PoW is the law of the land. That’s why I replied in that way.
- shawnz 6y ago
  They are paid fairly in exchange for providing it. If the current set of miners decide that they don't like Ethereum anymore then those profits are sitting on the table for anyone to take.

woah 6y ago

You think that proof of work mining was the initial philosophy of Ethereum? It’s the exact opposite. Ethereum was always intended to be proof of stake, they just couldn’t get it shipped in time to launch, and then the schedule slipped a bunch more.

shawnz 6y ago

If the current group of Ethereum miners decide to stop mining, why wouldn't new parties come in to take the profits they are leaving behind?

jkhdigital 6y ago
It’s not like there’s a giant pool of mining hardware waiting in the wings to take over... I think we can assume that all hardware is always in use mining something as long as marginal revenue exceeds marginal cost.
- shawnz 6y ago
  Ethereum is typically mined on GPUs so I would argue there really is a giant pool of hardware waiting to take over. On Bitcoin where ASIC mining is common that is indeed a concern, but consider even then, each hardware owner has stronger incentives to just lie about participating in such a strike while keeping the increased profits for themselves.