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Not just the cars ... maintaining the economy that creates those jobs that make new new stuff, and let people pay those new prices ... while wasting the old, an

Not just the cars ... maintaining the economy that creates those jobs that make new new stuff, and let people pay those new prices ... while wasting the old, and paying/maintaining someone expert enough to keep them running. Also fixing, improving: you gain that knowledge for yourself and share it with others. Instead of remaining a one-trick-pony. How many people even know how to change an oil filter? Hell you may wind up paying someone to change your battery. How crazy is that? Winding up tightly dependent.

astrange 6y ago
Why not pay someone else to change the battery? The guy in the AAA truck who replaced mine also diagnosed it was bad in the first place, brought the new one, and took the old one away. I wasn't going to do any of that stuff.
- jjav 6y ago
  > Why not pay someone else to change the battery? You can of course always pay for service if you don't feel like doing it. But that's missing the point. With older cars you have a choice of DIY or pay someone. With newer BMWs or example, even something as trivial as changing the battery requires dealer intervention because the ECU is coded to the battery (for no reason whatsoever, other than proprietary lock-in). Today, there are still independent BMW-certified mechanics who have access to the proprietary tooling to do these operations so if you make friends with one, you can still change a battery yourself. But nothing prevents BMW from cutting them off someday and then you're truly stuck with a dependency on the dealer. And what happens when BMW decides your model is no longer supported because they want you to buy a new one? No thanks. I'll have older cars which can be fixed mechanically without any DRM nonsense.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Ok, but BMW is particularly bad about it. Like, they are famous for this vendor lock in bullshit. I've had a brand new Mercedes AMG, 2016 model and did pretty much all maintenance by myself. Changing brake pads, oil, and yes, replacing the battery last year - no problems at all, could just do it myself. It definitely felt like a car that could be worked on by anybody without the electronics getting in the way or throwing an error just because you disconnected something for 2 minutes.
  - astrange 6y ago
    > Today, there are still independent BMW-certified mechanics who have access to the proprietary tooling to do these operations so if you make friends with one, you can still change a battery yourself. Are we talking about secondhand owners? People who buy BMWs don't have friends. In that case I feel for them, but at least there's plenty of other (generally cheaper and more reliable) brands.

astrange 6y ago

Why not pay someone else to change the battery? The guy in the AAA truck who replaced mine also diagnosed it was bad in the first place, brought the new one, and took the old one away. I wasn't going to do any of that stuff.

jjav 6y ago
> Why not pay someone else to change the battery? You can of course always pay for service if you don't feel like doing it. But that's missing the point. With older cars you have a choice of DIY or pay someone. With newer BMWs or example, even something as trivial as changing the battery requires dealer intervention because the ECU is coded to the battery (for no reason whatsoever, other than proprietary lock-in). Today, there are still independent BMW-certified mechanics who have access to the proprietary tooling to do these operations so if you make friends with one, you can still change a battery yourself. But nothing prevents BMW from cutting them off someday and then you're truly stuck with a dependency on the dealer. And what happens when BMW decides your model is no longer supported because they want you to buy a new one? No thanks. I'll have older cars which can be fixed mechanically without any DRM nonsense.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Ok, but BMW is particularly bad about it. Like, they are famous for this vendor lock in bullshit. I've had a brand new Mercedes AMG, 2016 model and did pretty much all maintenance by myself. Changing brake pads, oil, and yes, replacing the battery last year - no problems at all, could just do it myself. It definitely felt like a car that could be worked on by anybody without the electronics getting in the way or throwing an error just because you disconnected something for 2 minutes.
- astrange 6y ago
  > Today, there are still independent BMW-certified mechanics who have access to the proprietary tooling to do these operations so if you make friends with one, you can still change a battery yourself. Are we talking about secondhand owners? People who buy BMWs don't have friends. In that case I feel for them, but at least there's plenty of other (generally cheaper and more reliable) brands.