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That's weird. I mean, you do you, but if this is a popular opinion, I had no idea. On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something th

by krick 6y ago

That's weird. I mean, you do you, but if this is a popular opinion, I had no idea. On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I don't think of it as a personal preference: async information exchange is objectively less intrusive, which is why it should be preferred when possible (which isn't always the case, because it's also objectively less fluent). Unless you are some girl I'm mindlessly infatuated with, I'm probably not waiting for you call all day long, so when you are forcing me to interrupt whatever I was doing, because you are calling to say something as simple as "so, you asked me about X the other day, the answer is yes" or to ask a simple question without any follow up (or, my favourite: a courtesy call with no actual information exchange): I'll be polite, of course, but I'll hate you. If you want to ask or tell me something short: send me a text, I'll read and respond in 5 minutes, so that I don't have to interrupt what I'm doing right now. If it isn't short and you are too lazy to type: no problem, send me a voice-message. If you just want some chit-chat: ask me to go grab a beer (via text). If it's complicated and we'll need some back-and-forth, we should call each other, but I'll appreciate if you'll send a text/voice first, asking me to talk over the phone about X. And only if it's URGENT you call me right away. And because it's just sensible thing to do, when you are suddenly calling me, I'm already assuming it's URGENT: in fact, that's the only reason to answer you when you are calling, and not to call back when I'm in the mood. So when it turns out that it really wasn't, you are already an asshole, even if I don't show it.

airhead969 6y ago
Would you be content with chatbots, a sex doll, and living in an undersea bubble? If so (I doubt it), great, go for it. If not: don't answer, silent mode, or power off, or appreciate human contact when you do. If people are "calling too much," it's because you failed to train them how to interact with you. And, now you're resenting their assuming it was okay because you were too "nice" to be honest. Instead of mind-reading, communicate (edit: communicate your preferences of communication) perhaps. It's probably you, not them. Sorry, bud. Edit: Let's inquire curiously rather than name-call or get snarky, because that degrades the site and discourages understanding.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  Not OP, but of course not. But the text message with that other person is not the end of the interaction. It is a coordination effort. "What time are you going to be here for dinner." "6:30." Then the actual human interaction in person happens. > Sorry, bud. This makes you sound like a jerk.
- herval 6y ago
  Or maybe a text message is just a much more practical and less disruptive form of communication with, you know, another human being. You're being quite judgemental on other people and ascribing behavior just because they happen to communicate in methods that you find inappropriate. Not very constructive.
- krick 6y ago
  You really didn't provide any objective reasons for why it should be your way (I did). You are just projecting your (quite questionable) preferences onto others. I'll go again: there are 2 modes of interaction, sync for urgent stuff, async for everything else. If I'll go silent mode, I won't be answering ANY of your calls, even if you'll die when I don't pick up right now. You won't be able to choose between sync and async. If I'm not in the silent mode: it's a courtesy to you, and you should treat it respectfully. Since I don't know if it's urgent when I pick up, I'm trusting you to make the right choice between urgent and non-urgent (because, again, if I don't trust you to make the right choice, you won't be able to interrupt me when you really-really, oh-god-please-make-him-to-pick-up, really need to interrupt me). If you abuse it, you are an inconsiderate asshole, and not a "cool social guy, who is fun to talk to: I must be, because I've never heard people say otherwise!" If you abuse it too much, I'll be forced to tell you that you are abusing it. Which is not a polite thing to tell, and can be considered an act of agression, which is why many (most, perhaps) people will be hating you with a smile, instead of telling you that. That's why they'll resort to a seemingly more polite, but actually less productive act of passive agression: they'll actually go into silent mode (maybe for your phone number selectively) and you won't have a choice between sync and async anymore. And, let's be clear: everybody (me included) wants their emails, calls, texts, anything to be answered immediately. The fact is that it's not always convenient for the other guy because he has both other texts/emails/calls, and unless he is a sales agent, also has stuff to do besides talking to phone (actually, no: even sales agents aren't on the phone 24/7). Ignoring that simple fact is being an asshole, not a custodian of "nearly forgotten the true and only art of real™ human interaction". Sorry, bud.
lc9er 6y ago
The argument against texting, for me at least, is that it’s more intrusive (constant interruptions for unimportant things) and interactions end up being less and less meaningful.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Turn off notifications. Text is inherently asynchronous letting you answer when you can. Phone calls that aren’t for a conversation are much more intrusive.
  - 8ytecoder 6y ago
    Exactly. Texting gives control to the receiver on how and when to respond. Calling takes away that control. I wish voice messages were more common though. In iMessage you could simply place your phone near your ear and start talking to send a voice message. I don’t see many people use that or even aware of that.
    - SyzygistSix 6y ago
      Yep. For these reasons I find texting more respectful of other people's time and more polite.
    - skinnymuch 6y ago
      It’s not feature full. It’s not easy to rewind or fast forward. You can’t change the speed of the memo. If your phone switches tilts - horizontal to vertical, usually the memo is lost. Those aren’t what is keeping iMessage memos from being used however they frustrate me as I have gotten used to Otter.ai and Telegram years earlier.
  - zamfi 6y ago
    This is a generational thing. If you’re over 30-35, you treat texts as asynchronous. If you’re under 30, you assume someone who hasn’t responded within minutes is dead. At least, in my limited experience.
bsder 6y ago
> On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I'm just as annoyed when someone keeps sending me texts when a 5 minute call would have been far more efficient. If we have sent more than 3 back and forths in text, it's time to switch to a call. For me, the twenty-somethings are terrible about this. They are just absolutely allergic to voice communication.
- BlargMcLarg 6y ago
  It really depends on the context. I like having a history of things that are important, and I got more than enough information to keep in my head already. Actively processing voice on someone else's tempo over a crappy mic often leads to mistakes, and the lack of history forces me to ask again when I inevitably forget. Also, the fast-paced nature of voice tends to make people neglect nuance which may be important. Your idea of efficient may vastly differ from someone else's.
  - TheFlyingFish 6y ago
    > Actively processing voice on someone else's tempo over a crappy mic often leads to mistakes On the flipside, text-only conversation often simply doesn't include that nuance at all. I can't count the number of times I've completely misunderstood someone's tone over text when it would have been blindingly obvious over voice. Key and Peele even did a skit about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo Voice and text have different strengths and weaknesses as communications media. Both are appropriate in different situations. I will admit, however, to being somewhat "allergic" (as another commenter put it) to voice, probably to an unreasonable extent, because I selfishly value my ability to focus on what I'm doing right now instead of giving it to someone else for a couple of minutes. But at the same time, I've often found that someone older who didn't grow up with easy text-based communication will use a phone call when a text would have been more than sufficient, and this can be quite irritating at times. I suspect it's in reaction to this that younger people tend to avoid voice communication even when it would probably be a better choice.
naveen99 6y ago
Voice can be asynchronous as well: https://youtu.be/yg-TqEFYcfM https://youtu.be/yg-TqEFYcfM What you really want is a secretary between you and everyone else.
JasonFruit 6y ago
I think your multitier "How and When It's Okay To Talk To Me" document only seems like a good way to interact with others if you ignore that they are also people with preferences and time constraints, and that communication is _between_ two people, not just _to_ you. If you take those things into account, you start to sound like a person who thinks others should tailor their actions to your whims, and thinks other people are the assholes when they don't follow your unspoken rules.
- malux85 6y ago
  I agree with Krick Async communication by txt not only avoids interruptions to what Im currently doing (often difficult programming / analysis tasks) but also. with txt there's not the expectation of immediate answers like there is with voice. With txt I can reference material (code, results, calendar) and or think deeper about a response, consider angles and second order effects and THEN respond. This leads to much deeper conversations and more well thought out execution. I see a call as rude generally, because what its saying is "Stop what you are doing, give me all of your attention and talk to me about my topic right now, and answer me right now" and 99.99999% of the time, nothing is that urgent
  - o-__-o 6y ago
    I, I, I. What about the human on the other end of that call. They must always cater to your whims and requests?
    - vsskanth 6y ago
      Its ironic because it's actually the human at the other end forcing you to drop what you're doing and pay attention at their whim. Calling only when it's time sensitive and simply dropping a note otherwise is more respectful of the other person's time.
      - JasonFruit 6y ago
        I have the same preference you do, but I recognize that efficiency is not the sole purpose of a conversation. Asynchronous text conversation lacks a direct interactivity that many people value, and it is often useful even when the topic isn't time-sensitive. For example, this conversation wasn't pressing, but imagine how much more smoothly it would have run if we were talking while waiting for a meeting to start. You get that interactivity from a call; you don't get it in text messages.

by krick 6y ago

airhead969 6y ago

Would you be content with chatbots, a sex doll, and living in an undersea bubble? If so (I doubt it), great, go for it. If not: don't answer, silent mode, or power off, or appreciate human contact when you do. If people are "calling too much," it's because you failed to train them how to interact with you. And, now you're resenting their assuming it was okay because you were too "nice" to be honest. Instead of mind-reading, communicate (edit: communicate your preferences of communication) perhaps. It's probably you, not them. Sorry, bud. Edit: Let's inquire curiously rather than name-call or get snarky, because that degrades the site and discourages understanding.

UncleMeat 6y ago
Not OP, but of course not. But the text message with that other person is not the end of the interaction. It is a coordination effort. "What time are you going to be here for dinner." "6:30." Then the actual human interaction in person happens. > Sorry, bud. This makes you sound like a jerk.
herval 6y ago
Or maybe a text message is just a much more practical and less disruptive form of communication with, you know, another human being. You're being quite judgemental on other people and ascribing behavior just because they happen to communicate in methods that you find inappropriate. Not very constructive.
krick 6y ago
You really didn't provide any objective reasons for why it should be your way (I did). You are just projecting your (quite questionable) preferences onto others. I'll go again: there are 2 modes of interaction, sync for urgent stuff, async for everything else. If I'll go silent mode, I won't be answering ANY of your calls, even if you'll die when I don't pick up right now. You won't be able to choose between sync and async. If I'm not in the silent mode: it's a courtesy to you, and you should treat it respectfully. Since I don't know if it's urgent when I pick up, I'm trusting you to make the right choice between urgent and non-urgent (because, again, if I don't trust you to make the right choice, you won't be able to interrupt me when you really-really, oh-god-please-make-him-to-pick-up, really need to interrupt me). If you abuse it, you are an inconsiderate asshole, and not a "cool social guy, who is fun to talk to: I must be, because I've never heard people say otherwise!" If you abuse it too much, I'll be forced to tell you that you are abusing it. Which is not a polite thing to tell, and can be considered an act of agression, which is why many (most, perhaps) people will be hating you with a smile, instead of telling you that. That's why they'll resort to a seemingly more polite, but actually less productive act of passive agression: they'll actually go into silent mode (maybe for your phone number selectively) and you won't have a choice between sync and async anymore. And, let's be clear: everybody (me included) wants their emails, calls, texts, anything to be answered immediately. The fact is that it's not always convenient for the other guy because he has both other texts/emails/calls, and unless he is a sales agent, also has stuff to do besides talking to phone (actually, no: even sales agents aren't on the phone 24/7). Ignoring that simple fact is being an asshole, not a custodian of "nearly forgotten the true and only art of real™ human interaction". Sorry, bud.

lc9er 6y ago

The argument against texting, for me at least, is that it’s more intrusive (constant interruptions for unimportant things) and interactions end up being less and less meaningful.

Jtsummers 6y ago
Turn off notifications. Text is inherently asynchronous letting you answer when you can. Phone calls that aren’t for a conversation are much more intrusive.
- 8ytecoder 6y ago
  Exactly. Texting gives control to the receiver on how and when to respond. Calling takes away that control. I wish voice messages were more common though. In iMessage you could simply place your phone near your ear and start talking to send a voice message. I don’t see many people use that or even aware of that.
  - SyzygistSix 6y ago
    Yep. For these reasons I find texting more respectful of other people's time and more polite.
  - skinnymuch 6y ago
    It’s not feature full. It’s not easy to rewind or fast forward. You can’t change the speed of the memo. If your phone switches tilts - horizontal to vertical, usually the memo is lost. Those aren’t what is keeping iMessage memos from being used however they frustrate me as I have gotten used to Otter.ai and Telegram years earlier.
- zamfi 6y ago
  This is a generational thing. If you’re over 30-35, you treat texts as asynchronous. If you’re under 30, you assume someone who hasn’t responded within minutes is dead. At least, in my limited experience.

bsder 6y ago

> On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I'm just as annoyed when someone keeps sending me texts when a 5 minute call would have been far more efficient. If we have sent more than 3 back and forths in text, it's time to switch to a call. For me, the twenty-somethings are terrible about this. They are just absolutely allergic to voice communication.

BlargMcLarg 6y ago
It really depends on the context. I like having a history of things that are important, and I got more than enough information to keep in my head already. Actively processing voice on someone else's tempo over a crappy mic often leads to mistakes, and the lack of history forces me to ask again when I inevitably forget. Also, the fast-paced nature of voice tends to make people neglect nuance which may be important. Your idea of efficient may vastly differ from someone else's.
- TheFlyingFish 6y ago
  > Actively processing voice on someone else's tempo over a crappy mic often leads to mistakes On the flipside, text-only conversation often simply doesn't include that nuance at all. I can't count the number of times I've completely misunderstood someone's tone over text when it would have been blindingly obvious over voice. Key and Peele even did a skit about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo Voice and text have different strengths and weaknesses as communications media. Both are appropriate in different situations. I will admit, however, to being somewhat "allergic" (as another commenter put it) to voice, probably to an unreasonable extent, because I selfishly value my ability to focus on what I'm doing right now instead of giving it to someone else for a couple of minutes. But at the same time, I've often found that someone older who didn't grow up with easy text-based communication will use a phone call when a text would have been more than sufficient, and this can be quite irritating at times. I suspect it's in reaction to this that younger people tend to avoid voice communication even when it would probably be a better choice.

naveen99 6y ago

Voice can be asynchronous as well: https://youtu.be/yg-TqEFYcfM https://youtu.be/yg-TqEFYcfM What you really want is a secretary between you and everyone else.

JasonFruit 6y ago

I think your multitier "How and When It's Okay To Talk To Me" document only seems like a good way to interact with others if you ignore that they are also people with preferences and time constraints, and that communication is _between_ two people, not just _to_ you. If you take those things into account, you start to sound like a person who thinks others should tailor their actions to your whims, and thinks other people are the assholes when they don't follow your unspoken rules.

malux85 6y ago
I agree with Krick Async communication by txt not only avoids interruptions to what Im currently doing (often difficult programming / analysis tasks) but also. with txt there's not the expectation of immediate answers like there is with voice. With txt I can reference material (code, results, calendar) and or think deeper about a response, consider angles and second order effects and THEN respond. This leads to much deeper conversations and more well thought out execution. I see a call as rude generally, because what its saying is "Stop what you are doing, give me all of your attention and talk to me about my topic right now, and answer me right now" and 99.99999% of the time, nothing is that urgent
- o-__-o 6y ago
  I, I, I. What about the human on the other end of that call. They must always cater to your whims and requests?
  - vsskanth 6y ago
    Its ironic because it's actually the human at the other end forcing you to drop what you're doing and pay attention at their whim. Calling only when it's time sensitive and simply dropping a note otherwise is more respectful of the other person's time.
    - JasonFruit 6y ago
      I have the same preference you do, but I recognize that efficiency is not the sole purpose of a conversation. Asynchronous text conversation lacks a direct interactivity that many people value, and it is often useful even when the topic isn't time-sensitive. For example, this conversation wasn't pressing, but imagine how much more smoothly it would have run if we were talking while waiting for a meeting to start. You get that interactivity from a call; you don't get it in text messages.