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No, I have not disagreed with the Word; merel served it up for discussion. > In my mind, you're not really a Christian, but obviously in your mind you can be w

No, I have not disagreed with the Word; merel served it up for discussion. > In my mind, you're not really a Christian, but obviously in your mind you can be whatever you want. [Curtsy goes here] > You clearly denounce these parts of the scripture. How can you call yourself Christian and still disagree with these core beliefs of Christianity? I suppose that I'm supposed to go all Newton's 3rd Law in response to your troll. Is that what you require?

viklove 6y ago
I don't require anything, I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I'm just trying to understand your perspective. You're telling me that "universalism" is compatible with Christianty yet the bible says following any other faith or belief is a great sin. I don't think these two can logically coexist. And I guess you have no explanation for that. Cognitive dissonance is the only explanation, I guess.
- lcall 6y ago
  Related to my earlier comment in this branch, where I said "many belief systems have some truth and some good ... [and] Keep all the good that you have, and let us see if we can add to it." (I hope I'm saying this right.) As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe that all our choices have consequences, based on what we know/understand. All will eventually know about Jesus Christ (in this life or the next), enough to choose whether to accept His payment for their sins (by following Him), or suffer the consequences of those sins, personally. Sometimes that is called damnation, but He is merciful if we really try to do what we know is right, and everyone will get a chance. I suppose that the best heaven wouldn't be so great if it requires being around those who, knowing the truth, still want to lie and hurt others, right? (My thinking, anyway.) Seems like those should all be ... together somehow. Hopefully they can learn better eventually. The scriptures say we will get what we are willing to receive, that God knows all, cannot lie, and has a Plan which allows for both justice and mercy, for all His children, which we humans all are. Edit: He also says not to procrastinate our repentance (the changes we make to our lives when we follow Him). I can attest that He helps make life better in many ways, and more bearable in the hard times we can all have.
  - smitty1e 6y ago
    Where I am with the Viklove sort of interlocutor is to inquire: "Stipulate for argument's sake that I am incorrect, and Jesus is not the meaning of life, here and hereafter. Fine. What then is? What complete existential theory would you assert? What is the operating system of the universe in general, and my soul in particular? What is absolutely True? How can I judge that which is moral when the concept of truth has been scuttled? Is there anything else which you can objectively offer beside raw, carnivorous will-to-power?" If we're not fanatics, then, as an intellectual matter (irrespective of metaphysical faith), we should be serious about trading up, no?
- smitty1e 6y ago
  > You're telling me that "universalism" is compatible with Christianty No, I did not say universalism is "compatible", merely that it is commonplace. Cognitive dissonance is not the only explanation. Another explanation might be that you're giving me the motte-and-bailey business: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
lcall 6y ago
(In case you only see direct replies via one of the HN monitor services: I have replied to viklove on another part of this thread w/ how I find satisfactory answers, w/o what they have called cognitive dissonance.) (Paul talks about baptism for the dead, but we don't believe anything is forced on them, and yes that the Lord is both just and merciful.)

viklove 6y ago

I don't require anything, I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I'm just trying to understand your perspective. You're telling me that "universalism" is compatible with Christianty yet the bible says following any other faith or belief is a great sin. I don't think these two can logically coexist. And I guess you have no explanation for that. Cognitive dissonance is the only explanation, I guess.

lcall 6y ago
Related to my earlier comment in this branch, where I said "many belief systems have some truth and some good ... [and] Keep all the good that you have, and let us see if we can add to it." (I hope I'm saying this right.) As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe that all our choices have consequences, based on what we know/understand. All will eventually know about Jesus Christ (in this life or the next), enough to choose whether to accept His payment for their sins (by following Him), or suffer the consequences of those sins, personally. Sometimes that is called damnation, but He is merciful if we really try to do what we know is right, and everyone will get a chance. I suppose that the best heaven wouldn't be so great if it requires being around those who, knowing the truth, still want to lie and hurt others, right? (My thinking, anyway.) Seems like those should all be ... together somehow. Hopefully they can learn better eventually. The scriptures say we will get what we are willing to receive, that God knows all, cannot lie, and has a Plan which allows for both justice and mercy, for all His children, which we humans all are. Edit: He also says not to procrastinate our repentance (the changes we make to our lives when we follow Him). I can attest that He helps make life better in many ways, and more bearable in the hard times we can all have.
- smitty1e 6y ago
  Where I am with the Viklove sort of interlocutor is to inquire: "Stipulate for argument's sake that I am incorrect, and Jesus is not the meaning of life, here and hereafter. Fine. What then is? What complete existential theory would you assert? What is the operating system of the universe in general, and my soul in particular? What is absolutely True? How can I judge that which is moral when the concept of truth has been scuttled? Is there anything else which you can objectively offer beside raw, carnivorous will-to-power?" If we're not fanatics, then, as an intellectual matter (irrespective of metaphysical faith), we should be serious about trading up, no?
smitty1e 6y ago
> You're telling me that "universalism" is compatible with Christianty No, I did not say universalism is "compatible", merely that it is commonplace. Cognitive dissonance is not the only explanation. Another explanation might be that you're giving me the motte-and-bailey business: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

lcall 6y ago

(In case you only see direct replies via one of the HN monitor services: I have replied to viklove on another part of this thread w/ how I find satisfactory answers, w/o what they have called cognitive dissonance.) (Paul talks about baptism for the dead, but we don't believe anything is forced on them, and yes that the Lord is both just and merciful.)