5 ms·

The same Evo Morales who tried to modify the constitution to run another time since he wasn't allowed anymore using a referendum, people voted against so he los

The same Evo Morales who tried to modify the constitution to run another time since he wasn't allowed anymore using a referendum, people voted against so he lost, then sued and was allowed to run under very flaky legal arguments, then when the election came and his opponent was winning, results stopped being published and he proclaimed himself the winner without even finishing the count?

forgotmysn 6y ago
the very same
boomboomsubban 6y ago
>his opponent was winning, results stopped being published and he proclaimed himself the winner without even finishing the count? First, his opponent was never winning. His opponent was barely inside the 10% margin needed to secure a runoff election. And though Morales claimed himself the winner before absolutely all the votes were counted, he still left open the possibility of the runoff election being held. No significant fraud was ever found to have occurred, but after bogus claims of fraud Morales agreed to hold new elections. Morales was ousted from power before any further elections could happen though. If you want to claim the election was corrupt, his opponent Mesa should have become president. What happened was clearly a coup.
wry_discontent 6y ago
We also call elections before all the votes are counted here in the US. Morales did win that election, the suspicious patterns that were reported were bogus. The NYT had to issue a retraction over it, despite the fact that coverage at the time pointed out exactly the flaws mentioned later. You're also leaving out that Morales resigned and fled the country. And the fact that after the "interim government" was dissolved, Morales' very same political party won again.
- foolmeonce 6y ago
  Looking at the 2020 results, it seems like a remarkably good outcome to me. The trouble is that any leader who tries to expand term limits gets a relatively good deal probability wise, while the society gets a lot of uncertainty followed by a high probability of dictator. Consequences of trying to raise term limits should be many and more severe.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >Consequences of trying to raise term limits should be many and more severe More severe then a foreign backed coup? I don't disagree that raising term limits is sketchy, but the punishment seems far more worthy of condemnation.
    - foolmeonce 6y ago
      The power of foreign governments wax and wane, a permanent president is eventually a dictator and has all the necessary local resources to stay put. It is unfortunate for other countries that the precedents haven't been severe. I don't think Putin, Erdogan or Morales can reasonably regret not taking their standard ex-President package.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        So democracy doesn't really mean much to you, people making the "wrong" choice need their betters to step in and correct that choice.
        foolmeonce 6y ago
        Democracy is important to me, and therefore republics that have limits to maintain it. If killing a leader who increases his power within a republic is a problem for you then you value a world where democracy for one generation can choose dictators for the next. That is a world that can't maintain democracy.
        6y ago

forgotmysn 6y ago

the very same

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>his opponent was winning, results stopped being published and he proclaimed himself the winner without even finishing the count? First, his opponent was never winning. His opponent was barely inside the 10% margin needed to secure a runoff election. And though Morales claimed himself the winner before absolutely all the votes were counted, he still left open the possibility of the runoff election being held. No significant fraud was ever found to have occurred, but after bogus claims of fraud Morales agreed to hold new elections. Morales was ousted from power before any further elections could happen though. If you want to claim the election was corrupt, his opponent Mesa should have become president. What happened was clearly a coup.

wry_discontent 6y ago

We also call elections before all the votes are counted here in the US. Morales did win that election, the suspicious patterns that were reported were bogus. The NYT had to issue a retraction over it, despite the fact that coverage at the time pointed out exactly the flaws mentioned later. You're also leaving out that Morales resigned and fled the country. And the fact that after the "interim government" was dissolved, Morales' very same political party won again.

foolmeonce 6y ago
Looking at the 2020 results, it seems like a remarkably good outcome to me. The trouble is that any leader who tries to expand term limits gets a relatively good deal probability wise, while the society gets a lot of uncertainty followed by a high probability of dictator. Consequences of trying to raise term limits should be many and more severe.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >Consequences of trying to raise term limits should be many and more severe More severe then a foreign backed coup? I don't disagree that raising term limits is sketchy, but the punishment seems far more worthy of condemnation.
  - foolmeonce 6y ago
    The power of foreign governments wax and wane, a permanent president is eventually a dictator and has all the necessary local resources to stay put. It is unfortunate for other countries that the precedents haven't been severe. I don't think Putin, Erdogan or Morales can reasonably regret not taking their standard ex-President package.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      So democracy doesn't really mean much to you, people making the "wrong" choice need their betters to step in and correct that choice.
      - foolmeonce 6y ago
        Democracy is important to me, and therefore republics that have limits to maintain it. If killing a leader who increases his power within a republic is a problem for you then you value a world where democracy for one generation can choose dictators for the next. That is a world that can't maintain democracy.
        6y ago