6 ms·

The 0x community DAO. The next step towards decentralized

45 points by karlzt 6y ago

ketamine__ 6y ago
The next step towards being hacked.
- mint_cloud 6y ago
  Fwiw 0x has been running for 3+ years, launched 4 different versions of the protocol, no hacks https://0xtracker.com/network-insights?period=all https://0xtracker.com/network-insights?period=all
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    Lots of smart contracts haven't been hacked yet. We need smart contract insurance.
    - Podeau 6y ago
      It exists. Check out Cover protocol or NXM.
latchkey 6y ago
I've been participating in my first DeFi DAO project and as a 20+ year ASF member, this is literally open source v2. It is really fascinating to be part of this new generation.
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  Earning 8% interest off assets that are already speculative with counterparty risk. What could make more sense?
  - cliftonk 6y ago
    These protocols typically have various strong incentives to prevent drops below a certain collaterization ratio. There is a real danger that ETH/USD moves too quickly while gas fees get too high for the system to function properly and we see a lot of defi losses. I don't think this is likely but it could happen.
    - latchkey 6y ago
      Only if you're just playing on ETH. There are other chains now that don't suffer from that issue.
    - babyshake 6y ago
      A couple weeks ago there was a time period where there were tons of liquidations and gas fees were skyrocketing.
    - ketamine__ 6y ago
      The counterparty risk in also in the contract itself. Remember the DAO hack?
  - latchkey 6y ago
    8%? What are you referring to? The recent BlockFi FUD (or not, depending how how you look at it) news? What I'm referring to isn't the same at all. BlockFi is CeFi. DeFi is a whole different ball game, which is a big reason why these DAO's exist.
    - babyshake 6y ago
      I saw that BlockFi raised money. What is the FUD?
      - ac29 6y ago
        https://ditchblockfi.com/ https://ditchblockfi.com/
    - 6y ago
seniorgarcia 6y ago
I was hoping this is Dragon Age Origins but it is just another crypto scheme. Or whatever this is... >If a majority and at least 10M ZRX in voting power are cast in support of the proposal, it is queued in the (optional) Timelock. I have been on the internet since 1996 and that sentence just sounds like "we'll print money unless you stop us". Which is great, even though I have not been part of this particular money making scheme, I have profited of similar crypto monetizations. I think I do not understand stuff like this anymore: "We created an on-chain binding governance system able to perform arbitrary actions on a 2M ZRX community-owned Treasury, seed-financed by 0x Labs. The smart contracts work in orchestration with 0x’s existing staking system, for what concerns both the voting power delegation management and votes cadence." Even having read the ToS from https://0x.org/terms https://0x.org/terms it feels like I understand even less now. It sounds like you put money on their ledger and you are fine with whatever. I think I don't understand crypto and I would like to play DAO. I share a really popular Dragon Age Inquisition spreadsheet if you are interested in something completely different: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16Pt3AMXjBogM7UZ7Y92-CPRZEaHfVXMw98C9_UTbQPI/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16Pt3AMXjBogM7UZ7Y92-.... I'll approve your edit or copy requests soonish...
- Kranar 6y ago
  The principles behind the technology are very simple, but actually implementing it in a way that is secure, decentralized, and robust is incredibly difficult and requires a great deal of technical sophistication. Since a lot of this stuff is some what new, people take liberties to create jargon for describing it. It's not that unreasonable, when people come up with something they like to name it and sometimes those names can be fancy or unfamiliar. The main problem is that running programs on Ethereum is expensive, every computation costs money. Past efforts to create a fully automated stock market on Ethereum ran into these costly problems and the end result is that the exchange ends up having very little liquidity or users. Imagine a version of eBay were just placing a bid costs you money. Well with a market you place bids and cancel them, and often time do that repeatedly as you gain new information. If every single one of these actions costs you money and you need to wait potentially 20-30 seconds for your action to be confirmed by Ethereum (think of Ethereum as a very very slow computer), well people become hesitant to participate. 0x is a system to remove the vast majority of an exchange's function off Ethereum and only use Ethereum as a settlement layer or to resolve potential disputes. To do this, they introduce a market maker system where market makers act as middle men between people adding liquidity and people removing liquidity. These market markets do not use Ethereum to act so a user can interact with them without worrying about fees or time delays. To be a market marker, you need to put up some collateral into a pool, if you perform your function correctly then you get rewarded with fees, if you make a mistake or try to screw someone over, you lose your collateral. The market maker system 0x uses is what allows basically 99% of activity to operate outside of Ethereum and drastically reduce costs and improve performance. If everyone acts honestly then things run smooth and cheap. If someone decides to do something funny, then and only then does the power of the Ethereum blockchain get involved and a dispute resolution process is engaged, there is a cryptographic system to verify which participant is at fault and that participant gets penalized. That's all 0x is in a nutshell, it's a system that markets can participate in to run cheap and fast decentralized exchanges. Okay so now the question is... who runs 0x itself? Who makes decisions about 0x, its future, how will the exchange improve over time? This announcement is an answer to that question. Instead of 0x itself being a centralized entity, 0x is creating a set of computer programs that will run on Ethereum where future upgrades are voted on by people who own 0x tokens (ZRX). Someone can propose an upgrade to the system (by uploading an Ethereum program to the Ethereum blockchain), people who own 0x tokens can vote on the proposal. If the proposal gets the necessary votes, then the proposed program will receive write permissions to resources associated with the 0x system. One of the resources the program will get write access to is a pool of 0x tokens. Initially there are 2 million 0x tokens that will be placed in a pool, and proposals can make use of those tokens to fund activities or do who knows what, it's basically some seed-financing to get the ball rolling.

45 points by karlzt 6y ago

ketamine__ 6y ago

The next step towards being hacked.

mint_cloud 6y ago
Fwiw 0x has been running for 3+ years, launched 4 different versions of the protocol, no hacks https://0xtracker.com/network-insights?period=all https://0xtracker.com/network-insights?period=all
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  Lots of smart contracts haven't been hacked yet. We need smart contract insurance.
  - Podeau 6y ago
    It exists. Check out Cover protocol or NXM.

latchkey 6y ago

I've been participating in my first DeFi DAO project and as a 20+ year ASF member, this is literally open source v2. It is really fascinating to be part of this new generation.

ketamine__ 6y ago
Earning 8% interest off assets that are already speculative with counterparty risk. What could make more sense?
- cliftonk 6y ago
  These protocols typically have various strong incentives to prevent drops below a certain collaterization ratio. There is a real danger that ETH/USD moves too quickly while gas fees get too high for the system to function properly and we see a lot of defi losses. I don't think this is likely but it could happen.
  - latchkey 6y ago
    Only if you're just playing on ETH. There are other chains now that don't suffer from that issue.
  - babyshake 6y ago
    A couple weeks ago there was a time period where there were tons of liquidations and gas fees were skyrocketing.
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    The counterparty risk in also in the contract itself. Remember the DAO hack?
- latchkey 6y ago
  8%? What are you referring to? The recent BlockFi FUD (or not, depending how how you look at it) news? What I'm referring to isn't the same at all. BlockFi is CeFi. DeFi is a whole different ball game, which is a big reason why these DAO's exist.
  - babyshake 6y ago
    I saw that BlockFi raised money. What is the FUD?
    - ac29 6y ago
      https://ditchblockfi.com/ https://ditchblockfi.com/
  - 6y ago

seniorgarcia 6y ago

I was hoping this is Dragon Age Origins but it is just another crypto scheme. Or whatever this is... >If a majority and at least 10M ZRX in voting power are cast in support of the proposal, it is queued in the (optional) Timelock. I have been on the internet since 1996 and that sentence just sounds like "we'll print money unless you stop us". Which is great, even though I have not been part of this particular money making scheme, I have profited of similar crypto monetizations. I think I do not understand stuff like this anymore: "We created an on-chain binding governance system able to perform arbitrary actions on a 2M ZRX community-owned Treasury, seed-financed by 0x Labs. The smart contracts work in orchestration with 0x’s existing staking system, for what concerns both the voting power delegation management and votes cadence." Even having read the ToS from https://0x.org/terms https://0x.org/terms it feels like I understand even less now. It sounds like you put money on their ledger and you are fine with whatever. I think I don't understand crypto and I would like to play DAO. I share a really popular Dragon Age Inquisition spreadsheet if you are interested in something completely different: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16Pt3AMXjBogM7UZ7Y92-CPRZEaHfVXMw98C9_UTbQPI/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16Pt3AMXjBogM7UZ7Y92-.... I'll approve your edit or copy requests soonish...

Kranar 6y ago
The principles behind the technology are very simple, but actually implementing it in a way that is secure, decentralized, and robust is incredibly difficult and requires a great deal of technical sophistication. Since a lot of this stuff is some what new, people take liberties to create jargon for describing it. It's not that unreasonable, when people come up with something they like to name it and sometimes those names can be fancy or unfamiliar. The main problem is that running programs on Ethereum is expensive, every computation costs money. Past efforts to create a fully automated stock market on Ethereum ran into these costly problems and the end result is that the exchange ends up having very little liquidity or users. Imagine a version of eBay were just placing a bid costs you money. Well with a market you place bids and cancel them, and often time do that repeatedly as you gain new information. If every single one of these actions costs you money and you need to wait potentially 20-30 seconds for your action to be confirmed by Ethereum (think of Ethereum as a very very slow computer), well people become hesitant to participate. 0x is a system to remove the vast majority of an exchange's function off Ethereum and only use Ethereum as a settlement layer or to resolve potential disputes. To do this, they introduce a market maker system where market makers act as middle men between people adding liquidity and people removing liquidity. These market markets do not use Ethereum to act so a user can interact with them without worrying about fees or time delays. To be a market marker, you need to put up some collateral into a pool, if you perform your function correctly then you get rewarded with fees, if you make a mistake or try to screw someone over, you lose your collateral. The market maker system 0x uses is what allows basically 99% of activity to operate outside of Ethereum and drastically reduce costs and improve performance. If everyone acts honestly then things run smooth and cheap. If someone decides to do something funny, then and only then does the power of the Ethereum blockchain get involved and a dispute resolution process is engaged, there is a cryptographic system to verify which participant is at fault and that participant gets penalized. That's all 0x is in a nutshell, it's a system that markets can participate in to run cheap and fast decentralized exchanges. Okay so now the question is... who runs 0x itself? Who makes decisions about 0x, its future, how will the exchange improve over time? This announcement is an answer to that question. Instead of 0x itself being a centralized entity, 0x is creating a set of computer programs that will run on Ethereum where future upgrades are voted on by people who own 0x tokens (ZRX). Someone can propose an upgrade to the system (by uploading an Ethereum program to the Ethereum blockchain), people who own 0x tokens can vote on the proposal. If the proposal gets the necessary votes, then the proposed program will receive write permissions to resources associated with the 0x system. One of the resources the program will get write access to is a pool of 0x tokens. Initially there are 2 million 0x tokens that will be placed in a pool, and proposals can make use of those tokens to fund activities or do who knows what, it's basically some seed-financing to get the ball rolling.