5 ms·

I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work

I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. And hard back-breaking work is not unique to farming. Plenty of restaurants or other small businesses basically run off owners and family giving dozens of hours of labor every week "for free"

nineplay 6y ago
The author didn't want to work on the farm regardless of profit. 2 out of 3 of his brother didn't want to work on the farm regardless of profit. My friend would never go back to a farming life, nor would any of her siblings or cousins. It's just too much work in a world where there are a lot of fun things to do with your spare time. My friend mentors 4H students, but she also takes off on scuba-diving trips several times a year.
- jbroson 6y ago
  The proximate cause of the failing farm was that it's impossible to turn a profit! They had a family member willing to do the hard work! "hard work" had absolutely nothing to do with this particular farm failing. This isn't rocket science guys, I don't know why people insist on conjuring up phantoms to argue with.
asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
> I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. Why exactly is that important? I could not turn a profit running a family plastic casting business in the U.S. either. It's just not something that can be done competitively on a small scale. Seems like milk production isn't either. That's sad for people who want to do that as a profession. It's also sad that writing doesn't pay enough to employ everyone who wants to be writers, painting everyone who would rather paint, etc. Why is that a policy problem (besides the need to ensure these people have a soft landing in a destination profession that is economically viable)?
- Tossrock 6y ago
  Because large agribusiness conglomerates extract their profits largely by creating negative externalities through pollution and underpriced illegal labor? That was kinda the whole point of the article. Government exists to create policy regulating externalities, and they're failing to do their job here.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    Pollution is a negative externality, I agree. Paying illegal immigrants to work in the U.S. is illegal, but it is not a negative externality. I'm also not convinced that small farms are better about either of these things than big ones are.
    - handoflixue 6y ago
      The article included reports shows that the larger farms are responsible for more pollution, because the sort of techniques you use to handle the waste for 1,000+ cows are radically different than the ones you'd use to handle a small business herd. Search for the phrase "manure lagoon"
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        The same amount of milk needs to be produced either way. I'm skeptical that ten farms with 100 cows each will cause less manure than one farm with 1000 cows. It all has to be dealt with one way or another.
    - samatman 6y ago
      Sure it is. The profit goes to the lawbreakers, the loss goes to the citizens of this country who can't do that job at a decent wage. It's a classic negative externality.
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        > The profit goes to the lawbreakers, the loss goes to the citizens of this country who can't do that job at a decent wage. By that definition, every transaction where someone accepts a low wage causes a negative externality against someone who would accept a higher one. This does not match my understanding of externalities.

nineplay 6y ago

The author didn't want to work on the farm regardless of profit. 2 out of 3 of his brother didn't want to work on the farm regardless of profit. My friend would never go back to a farming life, nor would any of her siblings or cousins. It's just too much work in a world where there are a lot of fun things to do with your spare time. My friend mentors 4H students, but she also takes off on scuba-diving trips several times a year.

jbroson 6y ago
The proximate cause of the failing farm was that it's impossible to turn a profit! They had a family member willing to do the hard work! "hard work" had absolutely nothing to do with this particular farm failing. This isn't rocket science guys, I don't know why people insist on conjuring up phantoms to argue with.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago

> I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. Why exactly is that important? I could not turn a profit running a family plastic casting business in the U.S. either. It's just not something that can be done competitively on a small scale. Seems like milk production isn't either. That's sad for people who want to do that as a profession. It's also sad that writing doesn't pay enough to employ everyone who wants to be writers, painting everyone who would rather paint, etc. Why is that a policy problem (besides the need to ensure these people have a soft landing in a destination profession that is economically viable)?

Tossrock 6y ago
Because large agribusiness conglomerates extract their profits largely by creating negative externalities through pollution and underpriced illegal labor? That was kinda the whole point of the article. Government exists to create policy regulating externalities, and they're failing to do their job here.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  Pollution is a negative externality, I agree. Paying illegal immigrants to work in the U.S. is illegal, but it is not a negative externality. I'm also not convinced that small farms are better about either of these things than big ones are.
  - handoflixue 6y ago
    The article included reports shows that the larger farms are responsible for more pollution, because the sort of techniques you use to handle the waste for 1,000+ cows are radically different than the ones you'd use to handle a small business herd. Search for the phrase "manure lagoon"
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      The same amount of milk needs to be produced either way. I'm skeptical that ten farms with 100 cows each will cause less manure than one farm with 1000 cows. It all has to be dealt with one way or another.
  - samatman 6y ago
    Sure it is. The profit goes to the lawbreakers, the loss goes to the citizens of this country who can't do that job at a decent wage. It's a classic negative externality.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      > The profit goes to the lawbreakers, the loss goes to the citizens of this country who can't do that job at a decent wage. By that definition, every transaction where someone accepts a low wage causes a negative externality against someone who would accept a higher one. This does not match my understanding of externalities.