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Do you have any reason to feel so despondent without any real evidence? There's already plenty of people mining with renewable/stranded energy sources, all mini

Do you have any reason to feel so despondent without any real evidence? There's already plenty of people mining with renewable/stranded energy sources, all mining will head this way. My prediction is that the "energy consumption" arguments against bitcoin will disappear in 5 years. People are gonna tell us (bitcoiners) that the USD is secured by the powerful military of US behind it and we're supposed to accept it as a positive, but if we say that we're going to use electricity to secure the network with nothing but math and computation, we're instantly hated by the same people. What gives? How can you be ok with wars and threats of violence to enforce the value of a currency, but not computation and electricity? I just don't understand it.

blondie9x 6y ago
Think about it like this new energy capacity is added that is sustainable but the cryptocurrency mining part of grid keeps consuming and eating more of the grid then newly added renewable capacity it would be a wash and we wouldn't achieve sustainability commitments and be able to mitigate climate change. You can't just say well if Bitcoin mining is renewable then we are ok. What about the rest of the grid? They need some of the newly added renewable capacity as well as growth continues. TLDR if new renewable capacity added is less than growth of mining and current use of mining we get no where.
- fredfoobar 6y ago
  * You are talking as if there is a linear scaling of how much energy is consumed by a "miner" on the fly. This is false. * Most renewable/stranded energy mining operations have their own energy source that is not going to be shared by someone else. * Bitcoin's energy consumption doesn't scale with the number of transactions on each block. * Most of the bitcoin has already been mined, the incentive to "mine aggressively" is decreasing over time. * "What if bitcoin uses all the energy", like the top poster on this thread was talking about, they were mocking it to say that all of the energy generated by the sun will be used for mining eventually, is this a fair argument? If such extremist thinking took hold, we could use it to subdue pretty much all progress. Did we think that there will be gold miners digging up land everywhere and we won't have a place to live?
  - fredfoobar 6y ago
    Most of the arguments against, sound like the same arguments against things like cars (vs horses). "Do you think we'll make all those roads just for cars to go on?", "Cars don't work on dirt roads, they get stuck all the time", "What if you run out of gas in the middle of nowhere?" "You will run over people and kill them in an accident" "Cars cause pollution"
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Making ones own arguments is a great idea. Mocking others is not. Re-read the site rules.
      - fredfoobar 6y ago
        "Rules for thee, but not for me" 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26435464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26435464 2. "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        I simply pointed them out politely. Any sneering was entirely projected!
- blondie9x 6y ago
  Bitcoin energy consumption is rising as mining is more competitive and more rewards with rising price. The consumption of bitcoin mining is increasing. Can you stay calm? I am not trying to say lets give up on cryptocurrencies I am saying we need to have serious conversations about energy consumption and controlling mining energy consumption. When people get really defensive and angry it doesn't help. https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
  - fredfoobar 6y ago
    I am calm, don't patronize me. look at this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26440168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26440168 They straight up want destruction, without even considering merits of the new technology.
blondie9x 6y ago
People think if you are for controlling energy consumption and regulation of cryptocurrency mining you are against cryptocurrencies themselves. That is false.
- fredfoobar 6y ago
  To argue with statements like this: "If we start taking all the energy used to mine a given cryptocurrency it aggregates to more than most countries per cryptocurrency." just sounds disingenuous, it seems like they haven't done any research whatsoever, they just woke up to this news and got outraged. The energy consumption in clothes dryers, transportation, christmas lights etc. all will fall under "more than most countries" category. You are just constructing a narrative based attack.
blondie9x 6y ago
You are trying to brush off criticism with a red herring. The US military doesn’t secure USD... and we need to have a conversation about energy consumption and Bitcoin. We need to regulate mining for it the same way we regulate other mining on the planet. Physical or digital or still uses energy and we need to have a conversation and look at options. Not just dismiss critics for pointing out the obvious.
- fredfoobar 6y ago
  > The US military doesn’t secure USD The dollar is literally backed by the extraction and sale of oil (for dollars), which itself is enforced by the largest consumer of oil in the world, the U.S. military, and they secure the trade routes with their aircraft carriers and subs. It's called the petrodollar for a reason. I'm not dismissing criticism, I'm just questioning your line of criticism. Everyone will accept a fair regulatory regime, many of you are calling for an outright banishment, that's unacceptable.

blondie9x 6y ago

Think about it like this new energy capacity is added that is sustainable but the cryptocurrency mining part of grid keeps consuming and eating more of the grid then newly added renewable capacity it would be a wash and we wouldn't achieve sustainability commitments and be able to mitigate climate change. You can't just say well if Bitcoin mining is renewable then we are ok. What about the rest of the grid? They need some of the newly added renewable capacity as well as growth continues. TLDR if new renewable capacity added is less than growth of mining and current use of mining we get no where.

fredfoobar 6y ago
* You are talking as if there is a linear scaling of how much energy is consumed by a "miner" on the fly. This is false. * Most renewable/stranded energy mining operations have their own energy source that is not going to be shared by someone else. * Bitcoin's energy consumption doesn't scale with the number of transactions on each block. * Most of the bitcoin has already been mined, the incentive to "mine aggressively" is decreasing over time. * "What if bitcoin uses all the energy", like the top poster on this thread was talking about, they were mocking it to say that all of the energy generated by the sun will be used for mining eventually, is this a fair argument? If such extremist thinking took hold, we could use it to subdue pretty much all progress. Did we think that there will be gold miners digging up land everywhere and we won't have a place to live?
- fredfoobar 6y ago
  Most of the arguments against, sound like the same arguments against things like cars (vs horses). "Do you think we'll make all those roads just for cars to go on?", "Cars don't work on dirt roads, they get stuck all the time", "What if you run out of gas in the middle of nowhere?" "You will run over people and kill them in an accident" "Cars cause pollution"
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Making ones own arguments is a great idea. Mocking others is not. Re-read the site rules.
    - fredfoobar 6y ago
      "Rules for thee, but not for me" 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26435464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26435464 2. "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        I simply pointed them out politely. Any sneering was entirely projected!
blondie9x 6y ago
Bitcoin energy consumption is rising as mining is more competitive and more rewards with rising price. The consumption of bitcoin mining is increasing. Can you stay calm? I am not trying to say lets give up on cryptocurrencies I am saying we need to have serious conversations about energy consumption and controlling mining energy consumption. When people get really defensive and angry it doesn't help. https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
- fredfoobar 6y ago
  I am calm, don't patronize me. look at this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26440168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26440168 They straight up want destruction, without even considering merits of the new technology.

blondie9x 6y ago

People think if you are for controlling energy consumption and regulation of cryptocurrency mining you are against cryptocurrencies themselves. That is false.

fredfoobar 6y ago
To argue with statements like this: "If we start taking all the energy used to mine a given cryptocurrency it aggregates to more than most countries per cryptocurrency." just sounds disingenuous, it seems like they haven't done any research whatsoever, they just woke up to this news and got outraged. The energy consumption in clothes dryers, transportation, christmas lights etc. all will fall under "more than most countries" category. You are just constructing a narrative based attack.

blondie9x 6y ago

You are trying to brush off criticism with a red herring. The US military doesn’t secure USD... and we need to have a conversation about energy consumption and Bitcoin. We need to regulate mining for it the same way we regulate other mining on the planet. Physical or digital or still uses energy and we need to have a conversation and look at options. Not just dismiss critics for pointing out the obvious.

fredfoobar 6y ago
> The US military doesn’t secure USD The dollar is literally backed by the extraction and sale of oil (for dollars), which itself is enforced by the largest consumer of oil in the world, the U.S. military, and they secure the trade routes with their aircraft carriers and subs. It's called the petrodollar for a reason. I'm not dismissing criticism, I'm just questioning your line of criticism. Everyone will accept a fair regulatory regime, many of you are calling for an outright banishment, that's unacceptable.