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Today Dr. Seuss is hate speech. Tomorrow Dr. Seuss apologia will be hate speech. Even from the perspective that this is progress, it’s very fast progress. Today

Today Dr. Seuss is hate speech. Tomorrow Dr. Seuss apologia will be hate speech. Even from the perspective that this is progress, it’s very fast progress. Today’s white supremacists are last week’s liberals who didn’t update their opinions fast enough.

jackson1442 6y ago
When did Dr. Seuss become hate speech? Last I checked, my extended family still reads Dr. Seuss books with their small children. Yes, Seuss's family pulled a few books from production but I don't recall anyone decrying them.
- Ajedi32 6y ago
  I'm guessing GP is referring to how eBay banned third parties from selling used copies of the Dr. Seuss books in question. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26347654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26347654
  - jackson1442 6y ago
    Hm. I think it would have been in better taste to just have a flag on the items stating that the family has discontinued distribution for xyz reason.
Frondo 6y ago
Dr Seuss isn't hate speech, there are a few racist caricatures in a few of his books, that the owners have stopped printing. A few private platforms have stopped selling those books -- not all of them, neither all platforms nor books. You can still find those books, you just won't be able to buy official reprints from the copyright holder. I am not sure where you'll draw the line if you insist that copyright holders continue to issue reprints or if you insist that private platforms continue to offer trade in things they don't want on their platforms. Would that rule apply to ebay, but not a physical retail store where space is at a premium and people have to make choices about what not to sell every day? And would that rule compel ebay to sell nazi memorabilia or pre-American civil war slave memorabilia (which, afaik, they do not sell)? The Seuss stuff is something I really can't wrap my head around, because what is it people really want? Just the estate to be compelled to keep printing and selling them, that ebay be compelled to keep allowing them to be sold? Or some broader rule where any copyright holder of some (contemporarily) objectionable material be compelled to keep offering it, and every store be compelled to keep trading in it? All of those put limits on people's freedoms to choose in ways that make me uncomfortable.
- closeparen 6y ago
  Racist caricatures are right down the middle of any definition of hate speech I’ve seen. The production of an instant moral consensus - so that everyone, all at once, decides freely that it would be incompatible with their values to do what they were doing yesterday - is an exercise of a kind of power. “It’s just private entities doing what they want to do” doesn’t mitigate that.
darkarmani 6y ago
> Today Dr. Seuss is hate speech. That's a bizarre assertion to make.

jackson1442 6y ago

When did Dr. Seuss become hate speech? Last I checked, my extended family still reads Dr. Seuss books with their small children. Yes, Seuss's family pulled a few books from production but I don't recall anyone decrying them.

Ajedi32 6y ago
I'm guessing GP is referring to how eBay banned third parties from selling used copies of the Dr. Seuss books in question. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26347654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26347654
- jackson1442 6y ago
  Hm. I think it would have been in better taste to just have a flag on the items stating that the family has discontinued distribution for xyz reason.

Frondo 6y ago

Dr Seuss isn't hate speech, there are a few racist caricatures in a few of his books, that the owners have stopped printing. A few private platforms have stopped selling those books -- not all of them, neither all platforms nor books. You can still find those books, you just won't be able to buy official reprints from the copyright holder. I am not sure where you'll draw the line if you insist that copyright holders continue to issue reprints or if you insist that private platforms continue to offer trade in things they don't want on their platforms. Would that rule apply to ebay, but not a physical retail store where space is at a premium and people have to make choices about what not to sell every day? And would that rule compel ebay to sell nazi memorabilia or pre-American civil war slave memorabilia (which, afaik, they do not sell)? The Seuss stuff is something I really can't wrap my head around, because what is it people really want? Just the estate to be compelled to keep printing and selling them, that ebay be compelled to keep allowing them to be sold? Or some broader rule where any copyright holder of some (contemporarily) objectionable material be compelled to keep offering it, and every store be compelled to keep trading in it? All of those put limits on people's freedoms to choose in ways that make me uncomfortable.

closeparen 6y ago
Racist caricatures are right down the middle of any definition of hate speech I’ve seen. The production of an instant moral consensus - so that everyone, all at once, decides freely that it would be incompatible with their values to do what they were doing yesterday - is an exercise of a kind of power. “It’s just private entities doing what they want to do” doesn’t mitigate that.

darkarmani 6y ago

> Today Dr. Seuss is hate speech. That's a bizarre assertion to make.