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The politics around a decision like this are fascinating. I assume they've already paid in part or in full for the launch, and regardless, they did R&D on a sat

The politics around a decision like this are fascinating. I assume they've already paid in part or in full for the launch, and regardless, they did R&D on a satellite which is itself an asset that is now difficult to return to the owner!

jaywalk 6y ago
Also, "the contract with MAEU did not specify that the satellite cannot be used for military purposes." I completely understand why they're doing this, but it's tough to see how it's legal.
- WJW 6y ago
  Concepts like legality have much less meaning between countries. It's not like there is a court where Myanmar can sue if it wants their satellite back. At this level, the ultimate recourse is declaring war and reclaiming it by force but we all know how that would turn out.
  - TameAntelope 6y ago
    Diplomacy is a critical function of any government due to what you're saying, and IMO this could be a consequence of Myanmar neglecting that reality (for a myriad of valid and invalid reasons, I don't know enough about the current situation to speak with any intelligence about it).
  - celtain 6y ago
    Not all international disagreements are disagreements between sovereign nations themselves. It's possible that MAEU could sue JAXA or Hokkaido University in a Japanese court if they think they're violating Japanese law. If that's not the case, or if the Diet passes a new law that protects their countrymen in this dispute, then yeah it becomes the type of conflict you describe.
  - adinb 6y ago
    Isn’t that what the World Trade Organization (WTO) is for?
    - freeflight 6y ago
      The WTO has been effectively out of order these past years as the US has blocked the appointment of new judges to the appeals court. It's supposed to have seven judges, a minimum of three judges are required to issue rulings, but since 2019 there are only two judges left [0] So any ruling the WTO main body makes, like for example declaring US tariffs on China illegal [1], only needs to be appealed to be stuck in procedural limbo, which is exactly what ended up happening with the WTO ruling on US tariffs [2] [0] https://www.dw.com/en/wto-judge-blockage-could-prove-the-beginning-of-the-end/a-51613082# https://www.dw.com/en/wto-judge-blockage-could-prove-the-beg... [1] https://apnews.com/article/global-trade-china-archive-donald-trump-58a89252300408e255ed3a9a26004091 https://apnews.com/article/global-trade-china-archive-donald... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-26/u-s-appeals-wto-ruling-that-trump-s-china-tariffs-were-illegal https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-26/u-s-appea...
      - adinb 6y ago
        Thanks!
- bilbo0s 6y ago
  Don't they say that the great secret of international law, is that there is no international law? This situation is an example of what they mean by that.
- ramphastidae 6y ago
  According to what law? Tried in which court? And enforced by who? International law is basically: “Don’t like it? Well what ya gonna do about it?”
- DigiDigiorno 6y ago
  Imagine you were contracted to release a satellite and then you realize you might be providing military equipment to a hostile nation. Would you really think to yourself "Well the contract doesn't say I can't do this"?...
  - tkgally 6y ago
    Also, the Japanese government and individual national universities, including Hokkaido University [1, in Japanese], have regulations on the export of technology that can be used for military purposes. I work at another national university in Japan, and there has been a lot of internal debate, with political overtones, about how strictly those regulations should be enforced and how to deal with technology that has both military and civilian applications. I can easily imagine the researchers at Hokkaido University deciding that the military coup in Myanmar meant that deploying the satellite would run the risk of violating the rules of either their own university or the Japanese government. [1] https://www.hokudai.ac.jp/research/export-control/ https://www.hokudai.ac.jp/research/export-control/
slg 6y ago
You used "they" a couple times in that comment and it is important to question who "they" is given the political environment in Myanmar. Is the "they" that paid for the satellite and did the R&D the same "they" that who would be controlling the satellite? If not, would the new "they" use the capabilities of this satellite in a nefarious way?
- seniorgarcia 6y ago
  In context of this satellite, they is the MAEU (Myanmar Aerospace Engineering University) and the reason the satellite is being held is because apparently JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) can't reach the rector of the MAEU to make sure what the satellite would be used for. The reason why they can't reach the rector of the MAEU is because he might have been arrested or is in hiding (https://www.myanmar-now.org/en/news/soldiers-raid-aerospace-university-in-meiktila https://www.myanmar-now.org/en/news/soldiers-raid-aerospace-...). So, all in all, Japan is being careful and the situation in Myanmar is "undetermined". I think it is questionable where the "spying concern" is coming from, aside from being clickbait. >Officials at JAXA could not be reached for comment. MAEU did not respond to calls seeking comment, nor did a spokesman for Myanmar’s junta. It could be used for spying, because it's a satellite with cameras. If it has the capabilities to be used for spying is unclear, all the data would go through Japan anyway. Japan does not want to comment on it, persons responsible at MAEU are in prison or in hiding and the junta would probably lie anyway.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    “Spying” looks like editorial click bait. It isn’t even mentioned in the article. The concern I think is domestic use to commit genocide against their own people.
    - simonh 6y ago
      The article does mention concerns about military use. I think your being overly pedantic.
      - 6y ago
rantwasp 6y ago
keep the satellite. shipping back is gonna be more than what we payed for it
drak0n1c 6y ago
Something similar happened with the US and Iran. The Shah paid for military fighter jets, but then the Islamist theocracy took over. So the US froze the money and obviously wasn't going to deliver the jets to a USSR supported regime. The question of property legitimacy after a revolution is a recurring one throughout history. https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/ https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Since when was Khomeini USSR supported? Tudeh and MeK got their butts handed to them pretty early on.
  - drak0n1c 6y ago
    In the beginnings and first few years the revolution was supported, but relations cooled by 1984. https://eng.globalaffairs.ru/articles/the-soviet-union-and-the-iranian-revolution/ https://eng.globalaffairs.ru/articles/the-soviet-union-and-t...
downrightmike 6y ago
Oppsie! We dropped it and it burned up. Sorry lol
rusanu 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENS_Gamal_Abdel_Nasser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENS_Gamal_Abdel_Nasser Mistral class helicopter carrier, payed by Russia, built in France, delivered to Egypt instead due to the War in Donbass. France had to compensate Russia.

jaywalk 6y ago

Also, "the contract with MAEU did not specify that the satellite cannot be used for military purposes." I completely understand why they're doing this, but it's tough to see how it's legal.

WJW 6y ago
Concepts like legality have much less meaning between countries. It's not like there is a court where Myanmar can sue if it wants their satellite back. At this level, the ultimate recourse is declaring war and reclaiming it by force but we all know how that would turn out.
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  Diplomacy is a critical function of any government due to what you're saying, and IMO this could be a consequence of Myanmar neglecting that reality (for a myriad of valid and invalid reasons, I don't know enough about the current situation to speak with any intelligence about it).
- celtain 6y ago
  Not all international disagreements are disagreements between sovereign nations themselves. It's possible that MAEU could sue JAXA or Hokkaido University in a Japanese court if they think they're violating Japanese law. If that's not the case, or if the Diet passes a new law that protects their countrymen in this dispute, then yeah it becomes the type of conflict you describe.
- adinb 6y ago
  Isn’t that what the World Trade Organization (WTO) is for?
  - freeflight 6y ago
    The WTO has been effectively out of order these past years as the US has blocked the appointment of new judges to the appeals court. It's supposed to have seven judges, a minimum of three judges are required to issue rulings, but since 2019 there are only two judges left [0] So any ruling the WTO main body makes, like for example declaring US tariffs on China illegal [1], only needs to be appealed to be stuck in procedural limbo, which is exactly what ended up happening with the WTO ruling on US tariffs [2] [0] https://www.dw.com/en/wto-judge-blockage-could-prove-the-beginning-of-the-end/a-51613082# https://www.dw.com/en/wto-judge-blockage-could-prove-the-beg... [1] https://apnews.com/article/global-trade-china-archive-donald-trump-58a89252300408e255ed3a9a26004091 https://apnews.com/article/global-trade-china-archive-donald... [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-26/u-s-appeals-wto-ruling-that-trump-s-china-tariffs-were-illegal https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-26/u-s-appea...
    - adinb 6y ago
      Thanks!
bilbo0s 6y ago
Don't they say that the great secret of international law, is that there is no international law? This situation is an example of what they mean by that.
ramphastidae 6y ago
According to what law? Tried in which court? And enforced by who? International law is basically: “Don’t like it? Well what ya gonna do about it?”
DigiDigiorno 6y ago
Imagine you were contracted to release a satellite and then you realize you might be providing military equipment to a hostile nation. Would you really think to yourself "Well the contract doesn't say I can't do this"?...
- tkgally 6y ago
  Also, the Japanese government and individual national universities, including Hokkaido University [1, in Japanese], have regulations on the export of technology that can be used for military purposes. I work at another national university in Japan, and there has been a lot of internal debate, with political overtones, about how strictly those regulations should be enforced and how to deal with technology that has both military and civilian applications. I can easily imagine the researchers at Hokkaido University deciding that the military coup in Myanmar meant that deploying the satellite would run the risk of violating the rules of either their own university or the Japanese government. [1] https://www.hokudai.ac.jp/research/export-control/ https://www.hokudai.ac.jp/research/export-control/

slg 6y ago

You used "they" a couple times in that comment and it is important to question who "they" is given the political environment in Myanmar. Is the "they" that paid for the satellite and did the R&D the same "they" that who would be controlling the satellite? If not, would the new "they" use the capabilities of this satellite in a nefarious way?

seniorgarcia 6y ago
In context of this satellite, they is the MAEU (Myanmar Aerospace Engineering University) and the reason the satellite is being held is because apparently JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) can't reach the rector of the MAEU to make sure what the satellite would be used for. The reason why they can't reach the rector of the MAEU is because he might have been arrested or is in hiding (https://www.myanmar-now.org/en/news/soldiers-raid-aerospace-university-in-meiktila https://www.myanmar-now.org/en/news/soldiers-raid-aerospace-...). So, all in all, Japan is being careful and the situation in Myanmar is "undetermined". I think it is questionable where the "spying concern" is coming from, aside from being clickbait. >Officials at JAXA could not be reached for comment. MAEU did not respond to calls seeking comment, nor did a spokesman for Myanmar’s junta. It could be used for spying, because it's a satellite with cameras. If it has the capabilities to be used for spying is unclear, all the data would go through Japan anyway. Japan does not want to comment on it, persons responsible at MAEU are in prison or in hiding and the junta would probably lie anyway.
- garmaine 6y ago
  “Spying” looks like editorial click bait. It isn’t even mentioned in the article. The concern I think is domestic use to commit genocide against their own people.
  - simonh 6y ago
    The article does mention concerns about military use. I think your being overly pedantic.
    - 6y ago

rantwasp 6y ago

keep the satellite. shipping back is gonna be more than what we payed for it

drak0n1c 6y ago

Something similar happened with the US and Iran. The Shah paid for military fighter jets, but then the Islamist theocracy took over. So the US froze the money and obviously wasn't going to deliver the jets to a USSR supported regime. The question of property legitimacy after a revolution is a recurring one throughout history. https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/ https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/

selimthegrim 6y ago
Since when was Khomeini USSR supported? Tudeh and MeK got their butts handed to them pretty early on.
- drak0n1c 6y ago
  In the beginnings and first few years the revolution was supported, but relations cooled by 1984. https://eng.globalaffairs.ru/articles/the-soviet-union-and-the-iranian-revolution/ https://eng.globalaffairs.ru/articles/the-soviet-union-and-t...

downrightmike 6y ago

Oppsie! We dropped it and it burned up. Sorry lol

rusanu 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENS_Gamal_Abdel_Nasser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENS_Gamal_Abdel_Nasser Mistral class helicopter carrier, payed by Russia, built in France, delivered to Egypt instead due to the War in Donbass. France had to compensate Russia.