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> There was always an Overton Window and it has always been moving around. Has it always been getting narrower, though? That seems to be what's changed more th

by krona 6y ago

> There was always an Overton Window and it has always been moving around. Has it always been getting narrower, though? That seems to be what's changed more than anything. What happens when nothing can be discussed?

sudosysgen 6y ago
Has it been getting narrower, or do you feel as if it does as you slide closer to the edge, relatively? I don't know, both are possible. But there are a lot of people that claim it's getting smaller but really it's that they're failing to cover up ideas that were always unacceptable.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  Considering left-wing cancellation only, I'm guessing the enforced views are favored by less than 30% of the population. I don't think virtually any conservatives or many moderate liberals agree with the enforced viewpoint. Surely that means the Overton Window is narrowing. When have the views of 70+% of the population ever fell outside the OW? If it excludes the views of 70+%, is it even an "Overton Window" by definition? What's the difference between enforcing an extremely narrow window on the whole population and cultural authoritarianism (or perhaps just "authoritarianism"--I'm not exactly sure on the terminology?)? The other question is that, while rarer, right-wing cancellation is a thing. Notable examples are Dixie Chicks and Colin Kaepernick. While I could believe that the Dixie Chicks were a matter of an OW shift a few years in the making, and while I can believe that the window shifted gradually leftward from there, I can't believe that it shifted to the extreme left, then abruptly back to the right in just a week's time for the Kaepernick cancellation, and then a week later back to the far left for various left-wing cancellations. Even if it is the Overton Window, is it eminently desirable that people's livelihoods and healthcare should be subject to expressing views within the OW? EDIT: Downvoters, I would be very interested in your feedback, genuinely; where am I wrong?
mattnewton 6y ago
It may seem narrower to people who's views are sliding out of the window, but I see no evidence that the overton window in the US is any narrower now than say, the 1950's. If anything it feels like it has effectively widened, or at least fundamentally changed to lose some of it's bite, since there is no longer truly national media and everyone can quickly find a bubble with a window that fits their views.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  You may be able to find a bubble, but can you find a job?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- yanderekko 6y ago
  >It may seem narrower to people who's views are sliding out of the window, but I see no evidence that the overton window in the US is any narrower now than say, the 1950's. I can probably think of several views supported by the median American in 2021 (or at least 30% of Americans) that would get you summarily dismissed from most high-visibility jobs if publicly expressed. You probably could too. What views in the 1950s do you think were similar? Again, there was undoubtedly an Overton Window in the 1950s. What's peculiar about 2020s cancel culture imo, however, is how zealously it goes after people who hold views that are extremely common among the broader population.
  - lapetitejort 6y ago
    A view in the 1950's that could get you dismissed from a high-visibility job? How about being a communist? Have people forgotten about the McCarthy Era?
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      You'd probably still get dismissed from a high visibility job for being a communist, actually. IIRC in California being a communist bars you from holding office still today.
samlevine 6y ago
> What happens when nothing can be discussed? At that point, not discussing anything clearly means that you're a witch.
bhouston 6y ago
If the old Overton window (A) and new Overton window (B) are like circles in a Venn diagram and you are determined to stick in the old one, you will find that the intersection between it and the new Overton window is shrinking (A intersects B). This phenomenon explains why old people who do not want to change with the times will find that their Overton window is shrinking.

by krona 6y ago

sudosysgen 6y ago

Has it been getting narrower, or do you feel as if it does as you slide closer to the edge, relatively? I don't know, both are possible. But there are a lot of people that claim it's getting smaller but really it's that they're failing to cover up ideas that were always unacceptable.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
throwaway894345 6y ago
Considering left-wing cancellation only, I'm guessing the enforced views are favored by less than 30% of the population. I don't think virtually any conservatives or many moderate liberals agree with the enforced viewpoint. Surely that means the Overton Window is narrowing. When have the views of 70+% of the population ever fell outside the OW? If it excludes the views of 70+%, is it even an "Overton Window" by definition? What's the difference between enforcing an extremely narrow window on the whole population and cultural authoritarianism (or perhaps just "authoritarianism"--I'm not exactly sure on the terminology?)? The other question is that, while rarer, right-wing cancellation is a thing. Notable examples are Dixie Chicks and Colin Kaepernick. While I could believe that the Dixie Chicks were a matter of an OW shift a few years in the making, and while I can believe that the window shifted gradually leftward from there, I can't believe that it shifted to the extreme left, then abruptly back to the right in just a week's time for the Kaepernick cancellation, and then a week later back to the far left for various left-wing cancellations. Even if it is the Overton Window, is it eminently desirable that people's livelihoods and healthcare should be subject to expressing views within the OW? EDIT: Downvoters, I would be very interested in your feedback, genuinely; where am I wrong?

mattnewton 6y ago

It may seem narrower to people who's views are sliding out of the window, but I see no evidence that the overton window in the US is any narrower now than say, the 1950's. If anything it feels like it has effectively widened, or at least fundamentally changed to lose some of it's bite, since there is no longer truly national media and everyone can quickly find a bubble with a window that fits their views.

jtbayly 6y ago
You may be able to find a bubble, but can you find a job?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
yanderekko 6y ago
>It may seem narrower to people who's views are sliding out of the window, but I see no evidence that the overton window in the US is any narrower now than say, the 1950's. I can probably think of several views supported by the median American in 2021 (or at least 30% of Americans) that would get you summarily dismissed from most high-visibility jobs if publicly expressed. You probably could too. What views in the 1950s do you think were similar? Again, there was undoubtedly an Overton Window in the 1950s. What's peculiar about 2020s cancel culture imo, however, is how zealously it goes after people who hold views that are extremely common among the broader population.
- lapetitejort 6y ago
  A view in the 1950's that could get you dismissed from a high-visibility job? How about being a communist? Have people forgotten about the McCarthy Era?
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    You'd probably still get dismissed from a high visibility job for being a communist, actually. IIRC in California being a communist bars you from holding office still today.

samlevine 6y ago

> What happens when nothing can be discussed? At that point, not discussing anything clearly means that you're a witch.

bhouston 6y ago

If the old Overton window (A) and new Overton window (B) are like circles in a Venn diagram and you are determined to stick in the old one, you will find that the intersection between it and the new Overton window is shrinking (A intersects B). This phenomenon explains why old people who do not want to change with the times will find that their Overton window is shrinking.