5 ms·

> when you are used to 65W X86 the ARM stand no chance. My m1 mac says hi! :)

by xmodem 6y ago

bullen 6y ago
Yes, it says hi and then when you want to upgrade the disk/RAM you can't. And when it breaks you can't fix it and Apple sells you another one for bazillion dollars. And you have to use Metal instead of OpenGL. That's when I say goodbye until they reverse engineer the GPU and port OpenGL to it! :D Now I didn't even mention the App store tie in and how you need to sign the binaries on Apple hardware and how they poach 30%, but you get the picture.
- antiterra 6y ago
  You just moved the goalposts to another planet. Your initial comment was about wattage and ARM performance.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Not to mention that plenty of x86 hardware has also ditched socketed components.
- nkellenicki 6y ago
  None of that is even remotely related to your initial point.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > And when it breaks you can't fix it and Apple sells you another one for bazillion dollars. I’f you’re lucky enough to live in a country with consumer protection laws (NZ is one), Apple will fix if for you for 3-4 years. So you pay the fortune you mention and then a bit more to cover this feature.
- lucian1900 6y ago
  OpenGL is a legacy API. Metal, Vulkan and Direct3D 12 are the APIs that can actually saturate modern hardware.
  - bullen 6y ago
    Really those APIs bring nothing useful to the table. OpenGL (ES) 3 with VAO was the last feature that really moved any interesting goalpost (to reuse that phrasing since we have a tree structured comment field to move those around) for games. Most new protocols are just job security. Edit: Also calling something that just released in hardware (OpenGL ES 3) legacy is kinda weird. Maybe wait a decade or two?
    - lucian1900 6y ago
      Performance is very useful. OpenGL’s design precludes it.
      - bullen 6y ago
        Now I can reply to your comment (what is going on hn, why is there a timer on the reply button the deeper you get?) Performance with the low level APIs are not something that competes with OpenGLs higher level API, they are complementary; eventually there will be OpenGL drivers written in Vulkan! That said, I have yet to meet anyone that can give me a practial example that affects gameplay where Vulkan (or Metal/DX12) makes a difference! Also last but not least fragmentation is bad, I rather support OpenGL (ES) 3 on all platforms than port to those 3 new APIs.
        the-dude 6y ago
        Timing is what is going on. If you want to reply directly, click the timestamp. edit: the timer is there probably for flamewar prevention. Maybe for general discussion quality too.
        lucian1900 6y ago
        Sure, OpenGL can be implemented on top of the native efficient APIs. The biggest problem with OpenGL is the state. It severely affects CPU usage and limits parallelism options. The second problem is poor handling of buffers. It hardly matters, anyway. Vulkan, D3D 12 and Metal are very similar and almost always used indirectly through a game engine that can take advantage of them.

> when you are used to 65W X86 the ARM stand no chance. My m1 mac says hi! :)

by xmodem 6y ago

> when you are used to 65W X86 the ARM stand no chance. My m1 mac says hi! :)

Yes, it says hi and then when you want to upgrade the disk/RAM you can't. And when it breaks you can't fix it and Apple sells you another one for bazillion dollars. And you have to use Metal instead of OpenGL. That's when I say goodbye until they reverse engineer the GPU and port OpenGL to it! :D Now I didn't even mention the App store tie in and how you need to sign the binaries on Apple hardware and how they poach 30%, but you get the picture.

antiterra 6y ago
You just moved the goalposts to another planet. Your initial comment was about wattage and ARM performance.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Not to mention that plenty of x86 hardware has also ditched socketed components.
nkellenicki 6y ago
None of that is even remotely related to your initial point.
lostlogin 6y ago
> And when it breaks you can't fix it and Apple sells you another one for bazillion dollars. I’f you’re lucky enough to live in a country with consumer protection laws (NZ is one), Apple will fix if for you for 3-4 years. So you pay the fortune you mention and then a bit more to cover this feature.
lucian1900 6y ago
OpenGL is a legacy API. Metal, Vulkan and Direct3D 12 are the APIs that can actually saturate modern hardware.
- bullen 6y ago
  Really those APIs bring nothing useful to the table. OpenGL (ES) 3 with VAO was the last feature that really moved any interesting goalpost (to reuse that phrasing since we have a tree structured comment field to move those around) for games. Most new protocols are just job security. Edit: Also calling something that just released in hardware (OpenGL ES 3) legacy is kinda weird. Maybe wait a decade or two?
  - lucian1900 6y ago
    Performance is very useful. OpenGL’s design precludes it.
    - bullen 6y ago
      Now I can reply to your comment (what is going on hn, why is there a timer on the reply button the deeper you get?) Performance with the low level APIs are not something that competes with OpenGLs higher level API, they are complementary; eventually there will be OpenGL drivers written in Vulkan! That said, I have yet to meet anyone that can give me a practial example that affects gameplay where Vulkan (or Metal/DX12) makes a difference! Also last but not least fragmentation is bad, I rather support OpenGL (ES) 3 on all platforms than port to those 3 new APIs.
      - the-dude 6y ago
        Timing is what is going on. If you want to reply directly, click the timestamp. edit: the timer is there probably for flamewar prevention. Maybe for general discussion quality too.
      - lucian1900 6y ago
        Sure, OpenGL can be implemented on top of the native efficient APIs. The biggest problem with OpenGL is the state. It severely affects CPU usage and limits parallelism options. The second problem is poor handling of buffers. It hardly matters, anyway. Vulkan, D3D 12 and Metal are very similar and almost always used indirectly through a game engine that can take advantage of them.