4 ms·

2 observations: - I happily paid for a very similar product about 10 years ago (it was full screen width and had a brilliant timeline feature but otherwise ve

2 observations: - I happily paid for a very similar product about 10 years ago (it was full screen width and had a brilliant timeline feature but otherwise very similar. It was broken when Snow Lion or something was released. I still look for an equivalent.) - Monthly payments forever for standalone apps is a big no no in my book. I get annoyed even just writing about it. Monthly payments for feature upgrades, perpetual license for last pud release (and some discount to encourage people to not jump on and off) is however totally OK with me. In this case however I think the price is generally too high anyway - for now.

acjohnson55 6y ago
As a monthly payment, it doesn't make sense for individuals. But I think that's fine for selling to businesses.
2cb 6y ago
> Monthly payments forever for standalone apps is a big no no in my book. I get annoyed even just writing about it. Same. I often see good software then see they run on a subscription model and nope right out of there. If it was a one-off reasonable price I'd pay. Sometimes I am happy to pay a small yearly fee if it's real nice software and I wanna support the dev. But monthly subscriptions is stupid to me.
- bombcar 6y ago
  A subscription has to provide SOMETHING that I consider “ongoing” to be of value to me - 1Password syncing for example, or email - before I’ll consider it. Otherwise I’m looking for another option as I can’t be five and dimed to death by little subscriptions.
  - alex_g 6y ago
    Do you consider "ongoing" to be synonymous with "server costs"? As someone trying to figure out a pricing model for a currently-local-only app, I'm genuinely curious.
    - eitland 6y ago
      Personally I've thought this over a few times as has many others. As a software dev myself I'm fully aware that at least internet facing software must be maintained and that maintenance is actual work and should be paid. On the other hand there are so many apps where a subscription feels flat out dumb, so here are some alternatives: - tokens instead of subscriptions. Just don't make it another dumb whaling business or a toddler trap. E.g: local play free, networked game takes one token from one player. I'd be happy to not have to type payment details into my kids phones. You could even make a social thing out of it. Maybe I'll pay as much but 1. if I stop using it won't drain my bank account until I realize (making me feel stupid) 2. I don't lose access to my data. - meaningful upgrades/add ons - yearly releases - monthly but with perpetual license for the last paid release (Jetbrains model)
    - bombcar 6y ago
      Not synonymous but inclusive, yes. Something like a backup app that provides the cloud stuff, 1Password sync, game servers, etc. Continual improvement also counts as ongoing - but for many small utilities there’s only so much you can improve. A good thing I’ve seen is a subscription where you can buy a “lifetime” for what is probably 2x expected subscription value or something.
dhagz 6y ago
I'll tack on: I've happily paid for Fantastical (which is a monthly subscription, granted), and it has the nice menubar interface, a button to join video calls (works with Teams, BlueJeans, Zoom, probably more), integration with ANY calendar system, and it's only $4.99 a month. And I get a full desktop app and iOS app with it, and regular significant updates. I'm not as put out by the subscription model here because this is an application I'd be renewing my license for every new release anyways. I don't see why I'd pay more for less here.
015a 6y ago
My opinion on pricing for software is pretty straightforward: If its a local app, cloud/sync/whatever "anything" should be optional/opt-in. Developers should charge an upfront fee for a point-in-time of that release, bug fixes are included for N years, but feature releases are available as an annual/whatever upgrade. If cloud/sync/whatever makes sense for an app, then that should be available as a separate, monthly service fee. If it makes sense, then the developer can "bundle" both that monthly fee and the annual/whatever feature upgrade fee into a single subscription. That unified subscription is what most apps do, but its important that it be separate and opt-in, while giving customers a way to pay you otherwise. That way, your revenue is aligned with customer happiness. I think back to the 1Password transition to the subscription model, where they left tons of customers behind on the non-sync product without giving them a way to pay; now, their revenue is not aligned with the success & happiness of those customers. They're still customers! Yeah, they're not paying you every month. They'll probably pay you again in the future. But, oh no, they can't fit into your MRR metrics that you need to communicate to investors; that's your problem, but you're making it the customer's problem, which means you're actually anti-customer. If we're speaking of a website, then fundamentally, you've willfully unaligned your business model with any ability to price it transactionally. Maybe that's fine; if I think about something like Slack, that app makes zero sense to price transactionally, it's gonna be monthly, so I can't complain about that business model. But, Notion [1] is an example of an app which should have a transactional model; not everyone wants sync. Everything is connected to Money. And, in software, I think the biggest reason why customers have began noticing how much slower and less reliable software has become is literally because of Money; its because every app now needs to be a web service. Because your app is a web service, it has to live on the web. It gets served to customers by underpowered AWS m5.large instances; did you know that your customer's iPhone is more performant than an m5-tier AWS instance? It has to travel a thousand miles over the internet. The data model lives in a database; your customer has a 5Gbps SSD hardwired to the PCI-E bus of their CPU, but instead, by putting the data In The Cloud, you're making sixteen network hops just to query for something. None of this is better. Some of it is necessary, for some product domains, but don't fool yourself into thinking its better. [1] https://notion.so https://notion.so
floatingatoll 6y ago
Are monthly payments for “things that are built using moving-target APIs” acceptable? How many months/years of maintenance (“warranty”) do you typically expect to be priced into a one-time purchase price for software?

acjohnson55 6y ago

As a monthly payment, it doesn't make sense for individuals. But I think that's fine for selling to businesses.

2cb 6y ago

> Monthly payments forever for standalone apps is a big no no in my book. I get annoyed even just writing about it. Same. I often see good software then see they run on a subscription model and nope right out of there. If it was a one-off reasonable price I'd pay. Sometimes I am happy to pay a small yearly fee if it's real nice software and I wanna support the dev. But monthly subscriptions is stupid to me.

bombcar 6y ago
A subscription has to provide SOMETHING that I consider “ongoing” to be of value to me - 1Password syncing for example, or email - before I’ll consider it. Otherwise I’m looking for another option as I can’t be five and dimed to death by little subscriptions.
- alex_g 6y ago
  Do you consider "ongoing" to be synonymous with "server costs"? As someone trying to figure out a pricing model for a currently-local-only app, I'm genuinely curious.
  - eitland 6y ago
    Personally I've thought this over a few times as has many others. As a software dev myself I'm fully aware that at least internet facing software must be maintained and that maintenance is actual work and should be paid. On the other hand there are so many apps where a subscription feels flat out dumb, so here are some alternatives: - tokens instead of subscriptions. Just don't make it another dumb whaling business or a toddler trap. E.g: local play free, networked game takes one token from one player. I'd be happy to not have to type payment details into my kids phones. You could even make a social thing out of it. Maybe I'll pay as much but 1. if I stop using it won't drain my bank account until I realize (making me feel stupid) 2. I don't lose access to my data. - meaningful upgrades/add ons - yearly releases - monthly but with perpetual license for the last paid release (Jetbrains model)
  - bombcar 6y ago
    Not synonymous but inclusive, yes. Something like a backup app that provides the cloud stuff, 1Password sync, game servers, etc. Continual improvement also counts as ongoing - but for many small utilities there’s only so much you can improve. A good thing I’ve seen is a subscription where you can buy a “lifetime” for what is probably 2x expected subscription value or something.

dhagz 6y ago

I'll tack on: I've happily paid for Fantastical (which is a monthly subscription, granted), and it has the nice menubar interface, a button to join video calls (works with Teams, BlueJeans, Zoom, probably more), integration with ANY calendar system, and it's only $4.99 a month. And I get a full desktop app and iOS app with it, and regular significant updates. I'm not as put out by the subscription model here because this is an application I'd be renewing my license for every new release anyways. I don't see why I'd pay more for less here.

015a 6y ago

My opinion on pricing for software is pretty straightforward: If its a local app, cloud/sync/whatever "anything" should be optional/opt-in. Developers should charge an upfront fee for a point-in-time of that release, bug fixes are included for N years, but feature releases are available as an annual/whatever upgrade. If cloud/sync/whatever makes sense for an app, then that should be available as a separate, monthly service fee. If it makes sense, then the developer can "bundle" both that monthly fee and the annual/whatever feature upgrade fee into a single subscription. That unified subscription is what most apps do, but its important that it be separate and opt-in, while giving customers a way to pay you otherwise. That way, your revenue is aligned with customer happiness. I think back to the 1Password transition to the subscription model, where they left tons of customers behind on the non-sync product without giving them a way to pay; now, their revenue is not aligned with the success & happiness of those customers. They're still customers! Yeah, they're not paying you every month. They'll probably pay you again in the future. But, oh no, they can't fit into your MRR metrics that you need to communicate to investors; that's your problem, but you're making it the customer's problem, which means you're actually anti-customer. If we're speaking of a website, then fundamentally, you've willfully unaligned your business model with any ability to price it transactionally. Maybe that's fine; if I think about something like Slack, that app makes zero sense to price transactionally, it's gonna be monthly, so I can't complain about that business model. But, Notion [1] is an example of an app which should have a transactional model; not everyone wants sync. Everything is connected to Money. And, in software, I think the biggest reason why customers have began noticing how much slower and less reliable software has become is literally because of Money; its because every app now needs to be a web service. Because your app is a web service, it has to live on the web. It gets served to customers by underpowered AWS m5.large instances; did you know that your customer's iPhone is more performant than an m5-tier AWS instance? It has to travel a thousand miles over the internet. The data model lives in a database; your customer has a 5Gbps SSD hardwired to the PCI-E bus of their CPU, but instead, by putting the data In The Cloud, you're making sixteen network hops just to query for something. None of this is better. Some of it is necessary, for some product domains, but don't fool yourself into thinking its better. [1] https://notion.so https://notion.so

floatingatoll 6y ago

Are monthly payments for “things that are built using moving-target APIs” acceptable? How many months/years of maintenance (“warranty”) do you typically expect to be priced into a one-time purchase price for software?