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A story. A few years back I worked with an Indian team of developers and testers. They did a great job. Their lead was an IIT graduate. They have two managing

A story. A few years back I worked with an Indian team of developers and testers. They did a great job. Their lead was an IIT graduate. They have two managing partners; one is a secular Hindu and the other a practicing Muslim. Multicultural they are. I went to visit them once. (Always a good idea to personally get to know people who work on your stuff!) They're in Odisha, in the east of India. I asked the group, over lunch, about the caste system. Everybody agreed that it was a thing of the past and a historical shame. But, later, each team member found a private way to tell me they came from Brahmin (top caste) families. It was really interesting to see how it played out. Is it possible that human nature relentlessly drives us to this sort of tribalism? It shows up as racism in the western hemisphere, the caste system in India, the class system in England and their former colonies, and so forth. At any rate, resisting this tribalism is hard work. But do that work we must. It's helpful to this westerner to learn about the caste system. I suppose it's equally helpful to people from India to learn about American racism.

WillSlim95 6y ago
Not surprised my folks are from the same region and they behave exactly like that. I have heard enough relatives mention SC/ST as a term of derision and simultaneously discussing with other people talk as if the system is dead.
iamshs 6y ago
Racism and caste endogamy is very different... caste is violence given stamp of approval through religion, you cannot escape it. Dalits are beheaded for wearing turban, riding a horse, taking their marriage procession from upper caste street. Moreover, it has present day support of the system in India. Hindu saint who classified the castes through his treatise, Manu Smriti, finds his statue in front of Rajasthan High Court. News from today: Woman married a lower-caste guy, eloped, families lodged missing person complaint in Police, Police found the married couple and handed them over to their families. Woman's brother beheads his brother-in-law, sister hangs herself. https://twitter.com/ShoaibDaniyal/status/1370344548535177216 https://twitter.com/ShoaibDaniyal/status/1370344548535177216
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  > Dalits are beheaded for wearing turban, riding a horse, taking their marriage procession from upper caste street. I mean, that sounds precisely analogous to lynching black people for holding certain kinds of jobs, having wealth, or smiling at a white woman. I know extremely little about India so it is possible that I am entirely ignorant. But the situations you describe here sound like 1:1 matches to racist violence in the US.
  - ziftface 6y ago
    Also, the legal system in America is absolutely racist/classist as well. You could be optimistic and think of that as a holdover from more racist times, but either way it does kind of track with the story the op linked to.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > You could be optimistic and think of that as a holdover from more racist times, But you'd be wrong, since it involves active, current racism by legislators, police, prosecutors, judges, jurors, and witnesses, among others, not just “autopilot” racism in the way people in the a more racist past set up the system.
lazyninja987 6y ago
surprisingly, you are accurate. its tribalism at its core. i could add some more examples. sunni-shia conflict, arab muslim vs non-arab muslim, rich vs poor punjabi muslim vs bengali muslim (what caused 1971 bangladesh war) Few years back, an indian muslim went to join caliphate and fight for ISIS. he was made to clean toilets because Arab muslims treated/thought indian muslims are inferior and not good enough for jihad.
artichokes 6y ago
Any set of people who choose to cooperate and work as a group will consistently dominate when in competition with people who act as individuals. It's less human nature and more the nature of any system with actors and competition, and unless you see sex going away the world will involve both. You can drop out of the race of life if you want, but I wouldn't count on others doing it anytime soon.

WillSlim95 6y ago

Not surprised my folks are from the same region and they behave exactly like that. I have heard enough relatives mention SC/ST as a term of derision and simultaneously discussing with other people talk as if the system is dead.

iamshs 6y ago

Racism and caste endogamy is very different... caste is violence given stamp of approval through religion, you cannot escape it. Dalits are beheaded for wearing turban, riding a horse, taking their marriage procession from upper caste street. Moreover, it has present day support of the system in India. Hindu saint who classified the castes through his treatise, Manu Smriti, finds his statue in front of Rajasthan High Court. News from today: Woman married a lower-caste guy, eloped, families lodged missing person complaint in Police, Police found the married couple and handed them over to their families. Woman's brother beheads his brother-in-law, sister hangs herself. https://twitter.com/ShoaibDaniyal/status/1370344548535177216 https://twitter.com/ShoaibDaniyal/status/1370344548535177216

UncleMeat 6y ago
> Dalits are beheaded for wearing turban, riding a horse, taking their marriage procession from upper caste street. I mean, that sounds precisely analogous to lynching black people for holding certain kinds of jobs, having wealth, or smiling at a white woman. I know extremely little about India so it is possible that I am entirely ignorant. But the situations you describe here sound like 1:1 matches to racist violence in the US.
- ziftface 6y ago
  Also, the legal system in America is absolutely racist/classist as well. You could be optimistic and think of that as a holdover from more racist times, but either way it does kind of track with the story the op linked to.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > You could be optimistic and think of that as a holdover from more racist times, But you'd be wrong, since it involves active, current racism by legislators, police, prosecutors, judges, jurors, and witnesses, among others, not just “autopilot” racism in the way people in the a more racist past set up the system.

lazyninja987 6y ago

surprisingly, you are accurate. its tribalism at its core. i could add some more examples. sunni-shia conflict, arab muslim vs non-arab muslim, rich vs poor punjabi muslim vs bengali muslim (what caused 1971 bangladesh war) Few years back, an indian muslim went to join caliphate and fight for ISIS. he was made to clean toilets because Arab muslims treated/thought indian muslims are inferior and not good enough for jihad.

artichokes 6y ago

Any set of people who choose to cooperate and work as a group will consistently dominate when in competition with people who act as individuals. It's less human nature and more the nature of any system with actors and competition, and unless you see sex going away the world will involve both. You can drop out of the race of life if you want, but I wouldn't count on others doing it anytime soon.