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Mind you, activist veganism is one of the biggest reasons family farms are being destroyed all over the world. Basically, low quality food is flooding the mark

Mind you, activist veganism is one of the biggest reasons family farms are being destroyed all over the world. Basically, low quality food is flooding the market, and getting purchased by the poorer population, that don't feel they have a choice in what they eat, because they eat whatever is necessary to fit in their budget. Meanwhile people that CAN afford to buy high quality food from family farms, don't, because of activism convincing them that doing so is evil, specially any farm that has anything to do with animals, this results in things that are actually really bad, like climates where wool is an excellent product have the farmers fail due to lack of demand, and instead people start buying plastic-based clothes, that contribute to plastic pollution. Or in Brazil: people love to blame the animal industry there for the fires, but it is not so simple, the massive areas being deforested ilegally are often used to produce soybeans, that are on an evergrowing demand due to two sources of demand compounding: 1. As family farms die, cattle instead of eating grass (something that in Brazil and some other countries was important, as some places only grow grass, and not other plants more useful for direct human comsumption), people switch to factory animal farms, that require rations, that are often made of soybeans. 2. Meanwhile the upper strata of society is switching from high quality meat (that would eat grass) to eating soybean-based products (like soybean milk, soybean-based meat, etc...) I think many activists have their heart in the right place, but they don't understand they are causing more problems than fixing them, the soybean industry is massively destructive, incentivizing it is extremely bad idea. final note: Remembered other major source of soybean usage... when in the 60s and 70s there was this massive media campaign against usage of animal fats for frying, people switched to soybean oil to fry instead, Brazil also produces massive amounts of that, and I know many people that personally use soybean oil because they honestly believe it is healthier to them and better for the environment than using butter, pork fat, etc...

coppolaemilio 6y ago
Did you know that the soybeans planted there are 100% to feed cattle?
- samatman 6y ago
  Untrue, a significant amount, perhaps even most of it, is exported to China to feed pigs. 73% of Brazilian soybean exports go to China, I wasn't able to find figures on domestic vs export consumption with a cursory search. Doesn't really undermine your point, except that if you want to save Brazilian rainforest by reducing meat consumption, you'll need to take it up with the Chinese.
valgor 6y ago
You will be happy to learn that the majority of soybeans fed to live stock, so if you are worried about the environment, soy is better than meat.
shlant 6y ago
> activist veganism is one of the biggest reasons family farms are being destroyed all over the world You're going to have to provide some substantial evidence to back that up. In reality, family farms are actually being destroyed by factory farms[1][2]. This is the case with most industries - smaller operations cannot compete or get bought out by larger players. > massive areas being deforested ilegally are often used to produce soybeans If you are concerned about deforestation due to soy production, pointing to vegans as the main culprit is misguided at best and misleading at worst. If you care about preventing deforestation from soy, then you should know that around 70-75% of the world’s soya ends up as animal feed for cows, pigs, chickens and farmed fish[3] "In 2017, Brazil produced 16.3 million tons of soymeal for its domestic market, and more than 90 percent of that became animal feed, with 50 percent used as chicken feed, 25 percent as pig feed, and 12 percent for beef and dairy cattle feed."[4] 1. https://sentientmedia.org/family-farms-and-the-rise-of-industrial-agriculture/ https://sentientmedia.org/family-farms-and-the-rise-of-indus... 2. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american-food-giants-swallow-the-family-farms-iowa https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american... 3. https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/publications/research/2016-01-28-agricultural-commodities-brack-glover-wellesley.pdf https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/publication... 4. https://news.mongabay.com/2019/01/brazilian-hunger-for-meat-fattened-on-soy-is-deforesting-the-cerrado-report/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/01/brazilian-hunger-for-meat-...
byerobh 6y ago
Completely agree that the decline in food quality and the economic structures is tied to a decline in food culture. Seems the rest of the comments do not get the point that if people who can demanded quality food, the race to the bottom could be avoided. For example, I see how dairy went from the milkman delivering high quality milk to the mass produced stuff that barely resembles the original item. The interesting part is that now the high quality milk can only be had at ever increasing prices as the demand for it has decreased. If people who can afford it don't buy it, less people will afford it in the future furthering the decline in food quality. Truth is the poor don't even come into the picture. The decline in food culture is driven by the upper class and the pretense that things are the same. "It is still milk!" No it is not the same item. See also, impossible meat, etc... Catering to the lowest common denominator is only enabled by betters not knowing and choosing better. The health consequences are already apparent and the difference between people's diet and outcomes will only grow starker
simonh 6y ago
A fall in the demand for high value meat dosn't itself affect demand for low value meat. That makes no sense. On Brazilian soybeans. Most of the soybeans produced there are actually used to feed livestock. American vegans will be eating American Soybeans not Brazilian ones, so there's no real connection there. Even if there are a ton of Brazilian Vegans, it will take a lot fewer soybeans to feed them directly than it would feeding them via meat anyway. Same for vegans anywhere, surely you must know this? I'm not even a veggie, but I can't deny the environmental argument is very strong.
odonnellryan 6y ago
I think it is ridiculous to blame vegans for this.
wtmt 6y ago
> Basically, low quality food is flooding the market, and getting purchased by the poorer population, that don't feel they have a choice in what they eat, because they eat whatever is necessary to fit in their budget. This has everything to do with capitalism and large corporations selling 99c (meat) burgers with fries and cola with hardly anything healthy in them at the cost of the environment, workers, and other aspects. It’s not a recent phenomenon either. So your starting claim about activist veganism causing problems and continuing to this paragraph immediately after doesn’t make sense.
- speeder 6y ago
  Yes. Then better quality farmers have two choices: becomea competitor for mass-quantity farmers and rely on practices like feeding animals with soybeans, or focus on the high end market... But vegans convinced people on the high end market, to not buy those products. The article we are commenting on, already explained all the other reasons for death of the small dairies, I just added one more, it felt to me the article done enough to talk about government regulation and whatnot, and I didn't need to repeat it. Considering the replies I had here, maybe I was wrong on that.
u678u 6y ago
Milk production is up every year, so I think you are wrong. https://www.statista.com/statistics/194937/total-us-milk-production-since-1999/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/194937/total-us-milk-pro...
montoro 6y ago
I suggest you look into the data behind soy production and usage: most of the soy that is produced in the world is fed to animals which people then eat (which is highly wasteful compared to directly eating the soy) and so if you care about the environment, eating soy products is much, much better than eating animal-based products. https://ourworldindata.org/soy https://ourworldindata.org/soy Livestock farming is terrible for the environment and has a huge carbon footprint, partly due to the extreme amount of land it uses. https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

coppolaemilio 6y ago

Did you know that the soybeans planted there are 100% to feed cattle?

samatman 6y ago
Untrue, a significant amount, perhaps even most of it, is exported to China to feed pigs. 73% of Brazilian soybean exports go to China, I wasn't able to find figures on domestic vs export consumption with a cursory search. Doesn't really undermine your point, except that if you want to save Brazilian rainforest by reducing meat consumption, you'll need to take it up with the Chinese.

valgor 6y ago

You will be happy to learn that the majority of soybeans fed to live stock, so if you are worried about the environment, soy is better than meat.

shlant 6y ago

> activist veganism is one of the biggest reasons family farms are being destroyed all over the world You're going to have to provide some substantial evidence to back that up. In reality, family farms are actually being destroyed by factory farms[1][2]. This is the case with most industries - smaller operations cannot compete or get bought out by larger players. > massive areas being deforested ilegally are often used to produce soybeans If you are concerned about deforestation due to soy production, pointing to vegans as the main culprit is misguided at best and misleading at worst. If you care about preventing deforestation from soy, then you should know that around 70-75% of the world’s soya ends up as animal feed for cows, pigs, chickens and farmed fish[3] "In 2017, Brazil produced 16.3 million tons of soymeal for its domestic market, and more than 90 percent of that became animal feed, with 50 percent used as chicken feed, 25 percent as pig feed, and 12 percent for beef and dairy cattle feed."[4] 1. https://sentientmedia.org/family-farms-and-the-rise-of-industrial-agriculture/ https://sentientmedia.org/family-farms-and-the-rise-of-indus... 2. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american-food-giants-swallow-the-family-farms-iowa https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/09/american... 3. https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/publications/research/2016-01-28-agricultural-commodities-brack-glover-wellesley.pdf https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/publication... 4. https://news.mongabay.com/2019/01/brazilian-hunger-for-meat-fattened-on-soy-is-deforesting-the-cerrado-report/ https://news.mongabay.com/2019/01/brazilian-hunger-for-meat-...

byerobh 6y ago

Completely agree that the decline in food quality and the economic structures is tied to a decline in food culture. Seems the rest of the comments do not get the point that if people who can demanded quality food, the race to the bottom could be avoided. For example, I see how dairy went from the milkman delivering high quality milk to the mass produced stuff that barely resembles the original item. The interesting part is that now the high quality milk can only be had at ever increasing prices as the demand for it has decreased. If people who can afford it don't buy it, less people will afford it in the future furthering the decline in food quality. Truth is the poor don't even come into the picture. The decline in food culture is driven by the upper class and the pretense that things are the same. "It is still milk!" No it is not the same item. See also, impossible meat, etc... Catering to the lowest common denominator is only enabled by betters not knowing and choosing better. The health consequences are already apparent and the difference between people's diet and outcomes will only grow starker

simonh 6y ago

A fall in the demand for high value meat dosn't itself affect demand for low value meat. That makes no sense. On Brazilian soybeans. Most of the soybeans produced there are actually used to feed livestock. American vegans will be eating American Soybeans not Brazilian ones, so there's no real connection there. Even if there are a ton of Brazilian Vegans, it will take a lot fewer soybeans to feed them directly than it would feeding them via meat anyway. Same for vegans anywhere, surely you must know this? I'm not even a veggie, but I can't deny the environmental argument is very strong.

odonnellryan 6y ago

I think it is ridiculous to blame vegans for this.

wtmt 6y ago

> Basically, low quality food is flooding the market, and getting purchased by the poorer population, that don't feel they have a choice in what they eat, because they eat whatever is necessary to fit in their budget. This has everything to do with capitalism and large corporations selling 99c (meat) burgers with fries and cola with hardly anything healthy in them at the cost of the environment, workers, and other aspects. It’s not a recent phenomenon either. So your starting claim about activist veganism causing problems and continuing to this paragraph immediately after doesn’t make sense.

speeder 6y ago
Yes. Then better quality farmers have two choices: becomea competitor for mass-quantity farmers and rely on practices like feeding animals with soybeans, or focus on the high end market... But vegans convinced people on the high end market, to not buy those products. The article we are commenting on, already explained all the other reasons for death of the small dairies, I just added one more, it felt to me the article done enough to talk about government regulation and whatnot, and I didn't need to repeat it. Considering the replies I had here, maybe I was wrong on that.

u678u 6y ago

Milk production is up every year, so I think you are wrong. https://www.statista.com/statistics/194937/total-us-milk-production-since-1999/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/194937/total-us-milk-pro...

montoro 6y ago

I suggest you look into the data behind soy production and usage: most of the soy that is produced in the world is fed to animals which people then eat (which is highly wasteful compared to directly eating the soy) and so if you care about the environment, eating soy products is much, much better than eating animal-based products. https://ourworldindata.org/soy https://ourworldindata.org/soy Livestock farming is terrible for the environment and has a huge carbon footprint, partly due to the extreme amount of land it uses. https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local