4 ms·

There were a news article this fall about how demand for more ecological produced dairy and meat has gone down while public opinion about ecological produced da

by belorn 6y ago

There were a news article this fall about how demand for more ecological produced dairy and meat has gone down while public opinion about ecological produced dairy and meat has gone up. The explanation provided there is that while people increasingly care more about how the dairy and meat is produced, those same people are also reducing their consumption. This seems to be an area where pollution control and stricter regulation in regard to animal health is required in order to see improvements. In addition, human trafficking has become common practice in many cheap labor industries, to the point where the police has stopped investigating because otherwise they would have no resources to spend on areas which are more politically valuable. Many workers are forced to work or end up not getting paid, and then scared into avoiding the police in fear of violence. Work safety and health care rarely exist, and in the case of farm workers and construction there is few if any support system to help victims.

corty 6y ago
Also, ecological production has suffered several scandals, quality problems and marketing snafus that have lead to it decreasing in popularity or getting less ecological: E.g. there have been scandals around contaminated ecological ("Bio-" in Germany) eggs because chicken droppings more easily contaminate eggs when nests and cages are larger and more free-range. Ecological vegetables had acceptance problems because the lack of pesticides meant that the looks were less appealing in the supermarket, leading to the increased use of "green" pesticides (that is, "naturally occuring" poison) and barrier methods that harm wildlife like nets and foils. Ecological meat has also consistently over-promised and under-delivered on the customer-apparent quality of the product. You just don't notice if the steak you are eating came from a happy cow...
- belorn 6y ago
  I fully agree there exist problem with the ecological branding, and with eggs in particularly the standard is a bit shoehorned. In eu, ecological egg is mostly about how many chicken live per m^2, which is non-obvious by the name. For non-ecological egg in EU, the minimum standard is 16 hens in the small space of 6 cm^2 minimum per hen and cage. That to me is animal cruelty. Ecological egg has a minimum requirement of 6 hens per m^2 when inside, no battery cages, access to daylight 24/7 and outside access for half the year and then with 4m^2 per hen. There is also addition requirements for the feed but it feels so much less important than simply not having a cage where each hen has 6cm to stand on.
lifeisstillgood 6y ago
>>> In addition, human trafficking has become common practice in many cheap labor industries, to the point where the police has stopped investigating because otherwise they would have no resources to spend on areas which are more politically valuable. I'm sorry what.
- rtrdea 6y ago
  What?
- belorn 6y ago
  It was in the local news a year or so back. If they go to any construction site, they will find so many cases that they won't have resources to do any other work related investigations for the rest of the year. As such they decided to stop doing it for the unforeseen future. From the politicians, they mostly want the companies to self regulate. Human trafficking for labor is costly to enforce and is not something which wins votes, and the shortage in low wage workforce has trickle down effects on political goals that they do care about. The situation is very similar in areas of farming (as the article describes), fishing, foresting, and cleaning.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Are you using "human trafficking" when you mean "hiring workers who lack documentation"? These are not the same thing, and I don't believe anyone who knows enough English to have encountered that term would make that mistake.
    - belorn 6y ago
      70% of all human trafficking is for forced and exploitative labor. Lets take an example. 30 workers get transported over the border as seasonal workers to work at a farm. They live in small building without heating or running water, and barely have enough food. 3 months goes by and they have still not get paid, and when food stop arriving they decide to go to the police. The owner of the farm claim innocence, as they simply hired contractors. There is even a ongoing legal case between the farm owner and this contractor because the work has been less than what was agreed and paid. The farm owner has been living in a different country for this whole period and never seen the workers, and the pickup for the produce was handled by a different contractor. The police now have 30 unknown persons from multiple countries and without passports. The workers want to get their pay, and also food and shelter. They are do not want to get sent back home with nothing. The police will now have to do a lot of hard work, social service will have to address the humanitarian situation, and the criminals are very unlikely to be caught, fined and sentenced. It will cost a lot of money and resources for the government, with nothing that they can use political to show for it. Under the laws I live on, this is human trafficking. There are an unlimited amount of variation this, but the key aspects are exploration under coercion, abduction, fraud, and deception. There are those that like to think the problem is just a few missing documents, but in practice there are victims being coerced and forced into doing dangerous work with little or no pay, and then treated with disinterest by the rest of society.

by belorn 6y ago

corty 6y ago

Also, ecological production has suffered several scandals, quality problems and marketing snafus that have lead to it decreasing in popularity or getting less ecological: E.g. there have been scandals around contaminated ecological ("Bio-" in Germany) eggs because chicken droppings more easily contaminate eggs when nests and cages are larger and more free-range. Ecological vegetables had acceptance problems because the lack of pesticides meant that the looks were less appealing in the supermarket, leading to the increased use of "green" pesticides (that is, "naturally occuring" poison) and barrier methods that harm wildlife like nets and foils. Ecological meat has also consistently over-promised and under-delivered on the customer-apparent quality of the product. You just don't notice if the steak you are eating came from a happy cow...

belorn 6y ago
I fully agree there exist problem with the ecological branding, and with eggs in particularly the standard is a bit shoehorned. In eu, ecological egg is mostly about how many chicken live per m^2, which is non-obvious by the name. For non-ecological egg in EU, the minimum standard is 16 hens in the small space of 6 cm^2 minimum per hen and cage. That to me is animal cruelty. Ecological egg has a minimum requirement of 6 hens per m^2 when inside, no battery cages, access to daylight 24/7 and outside access for half the year and then with 4m^2 per hen. There is also addition requirements for the feed but it feels so much less important than simply not having a cage where each hen has 6cm to stand on.

lifeisstillgood 6y ago

>>> In addition, human trafficking has become common practice in many cheap labor industries, to the point where the police has stopped investigating because otherwise they would have no resources to spend on areas which are more politically valuable. I'm sorry what.

rtrdea 6y ago
What?
belorn 6y ago
It was in the local news a year or so back. If they go to any construction site, they will find so many cases that they won't have resources to do any other work related investigations for the rest of the year. As such they decided to stop doing it for the unforeseen future. From the politicians, they mostly want the companies to self regulate. Human trafficking for labor is costly to enforce and is not something which wins votes, and the shortage in low wage workforce has trickle down effects on political goals that they do care about. The situation is very similar in areas of farming (as the article describes), fishing, foresting, and cleaning.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Are you using "human trafficking" when you mean "hiring workers who lack documentation"? These are not the same thing, and I don't believe anyone who knows enough English to have encountered that term would make that mistake.
  - belorn 6y ago
    70% of all human trafficking is for forced and exploitative labor. Lets take an example. 30 workers get transported over the border as seasonal workers to work at a farm. They live in small building without heating or running water, and barely have enough food. 3 months goes by and they have still not get paid, and when food stop arriving they decide to go to the police. The owner of the farm claim innocence, as they simply hired contractors. There is even a ongoing legal case between the farm owner and this contractor because the work has been less than what was agreed and paid. The farm owner has been living in a different country for this whole period and never seen the workers, and the pickup for the produce was handled by a different contractor. The police now have 30 unknown persons from multiple countries and without passports. The workers want to get their pay, and also food and shelter. They are do not want to get sent back home with nothing. The police will now have to do a lot of hard work, social service will have to address the humanitarian situation, and the criminals are very unlikely to be caught, fined and sentenced. It will cost a lot of money and resources for the government, with nothing that they can use political to show for it. Under the laws I live on, this is human trafficking. There are an unlimited amount of variation this, but the key aspects are exploration under coercion, abduction, fraud, and deception. There are those that like to think the problem is just a few missing documents, but in practice there are victims being coerced and forced into doing dangerous work with little or no pay, and then treated with disinterest by the rest of society.