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I was strongly remain, 48% of us where, if the vote had been a year later it could quite easily have been 52/48 the other way. One wonders if remain had one if

I was strongly remain, 48% of us where, if the vote had been a year later it could quite easily have been 52/48 the other way. One wonders if remain had one if the leave campaign would have accepted "The vote was clear, put up with it and shut up". I completely understand why EU governments would be absolutely fed up with the UK government though. Sadly my generation (40 and younger) are going to have to live the consequences of something we didn't vote for (49 and younger voted remain getting more strongly remain as you go younger) - it's absolutely frustrating.

arethuza 6y ago
Nigel Farage made it clear that he wouldn't accept 52-48 as being decisive: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-3630668...
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Farage could continue campaigning if he wishes, but its not up to him. It's also apparent to me that the remain camp did keep fighting Brexit tooth & nail much like Farage might have, so I guess we have symmetry.
- callamdelaney 6y ago
  The difference is that the referendum was stacked against leave in every conceivable way. For example, the remain campaign had £6m more to work with. On top of this the government spent £9m on pro remain leaflets and social media advertising. Add onto this the fact that the government wheeled out every 'expert' it could find to constantly cry about how bad brexit would be - most of them were lying (Mark Carney, George Osbourne in particular told lies of the most astounding nature - for example that brexit would cause more damage to the economy than WW2? Think about that for a minute.). If anything the establishment was stacked against brexit.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    I'm Scottish, so I know exactly how "Project Fear" works!
  - monkey_monkey 6y ago
    Actually, the referendum was stacked against Remain, as Leave covered every single possible variation of not being in the EU, and at no point had to define anything except being "Not Remain"
    - dash2 6y ago
      I don't think that's a stacked decision. There's no way to specify exactly what each of two options will entail. (If you don't believe me, take a look at a California ballot pamphlet.) Of course Leave was gonna be more uncertain - but normally such uncertainty plays against you in referendums, where the status quo tends to win. If Remain didn't pin Leave down, then that's the fault of their campaigning, not the setup.
      - callamdelaney 6y ago
        Playing on this uncertainty was a conscious decision by the pro remain Conservative government of the time. People would ask 'what will happen after we vote brexit?' the natural reply: 'nobody knows' - well why not? It was clearly reckless to hold a vote on something without a plan on how it was actually to be implemented or even what it might look like; and there were calls for the government to do some investigation here and publish a report or some such document - the decision not to do so was in order to sow that uncertainty.
        Nursie 6y ago
        Yes that was more or less an explicit choice from Cameron IIRC - if we come up with a plan for what happens afterwards, that plan may reassure people that Brexit can work out OK, and play to the other side. So no plan. Genius.
        arethuza 6y ago
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Of course, and that would have been absolutely fine. Democracy is to be able to campaign for what you believe in. But equally, politically, and democratically, it is not tenable to call a referendum (which is something quite rare in the UK) and then to ignore the result. So the reality is that the government and Parliament had to abide by the result even if the referendum was legally not binding. Now people are of course free to campaign for the UK to join the EU.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    "Now people are of course free to campaign for the UK to join the EU." Or to campaign to leave the UK - which I suspect is a more achievable and sensible option. I'd doubt if the EU would want the UK back anyway.
    - tim333 6y ago
      Or just individually leave the UK. I find the thing kind of depressing. It's not even as if the leave voters seem happy. It seems more of a my life's crap - lets destroy this EU membership thing - oh my life's still crap. Apart from Boris - at least he got to be PM and seems fairly cheerful. Perhaps the lies on a bus were worth it.
    - Eupolemos 6y ago
      Sure we would. It's like a tooth-gap - and there's also the issue of lacking a respected military in times that are getting a lot more... interesting. But it feels like the UK needs to do some domestic cleanup before that has a chance of happening. Seems like the UK media and political landscape has gone completely off the rails.
  - tim333 6y ago
    With hindsight I think there should have been two parts. 'Do you want to leave?' and then having looked into the details "ok here's the deal - you still want to go ahead?" I don't think many people were really voting for the present mess. Bit like buying a house - you want it? Ok, well do a survey... it has a bit of dry rot - you still want it or shall we look at other options?
rob74 6y ago
> 49 and younger voted remain getting more strongly remain as you go younger Yeah, but unfortunately only 64% of the under 35 year olds bothered to turn up, while in the older age groups the turnout was much higher (80% for 35-64, 89% for over 65). That was probably a result of many (including the polls) thinking that the "Leave" side didn't have a chance of winning, same as many US Democrat supporters (also supported by the polls) didn't think Trump could win. The US voters got to correct their mistake four years later, no such luck for the UK voters unfortunately...
- dijit 6y ago
  The vote was held the same day as Glastonbury, just after university terms ended. So the students (18-24) that could vote had to be: A) living with parents during studies, or registered to vote at parents place while not living there full time (illegal) — or! Live full time on their own, which is rarely and B) to not go to Glastonbury, one of the largest festivals in the UK for young adults.
  - ferongr 6y ago
    If someone chose to go to a leisure activity instead of voting in a very important referendum that supposedly decided the future of the nation, then their vote was not worth much in the first place.
    - dijit 6y ago
      Most people assumed remain would win and were lax in voting. Hindsight being what it is tells us this was foolish, it that’s how it was.
  - Zpalmtree 6y ago
    Students are allowed to register at their home and term-time addresses. https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register > It’s sometimes possible to register at 2 addresses (though you can only vote once in any election). > For example, if you’re a student with different home and term-time addresses, you may be able to register at both.
azornathogron 6y ago
Don't worry; when you get older you'll become more conservative. And you'll be irritated by all the young folks of that future time who are shouting at you for your bad opinions and ignoring your experience and claiming you should be stripped of your vote, because, after all, you'll be dead soon anyway, so your opinion shouldn't matter. (I say this with tongue firmly in cheek, but I do think there is some truth to the idea that people broadly get more conservative as they get older)

arethuza 6y ago

Nigel Farage made it clear that he wouldn't accept 52-48 as being decisive: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-3630668...

Chris2048 6y ago
Farage could continue campaigning if he wishes, but its not up to him. It's also apparent to me that the remain camp did keep fighting Brexit tooth & nail much like Farage might have, so I guess we have symmetry.
callamdelaney 6y ago
The difference is that the referendum was stacked against leave in every conceivable way. For example, the remain campaign had £6m more to work with. On top of this the government spent £9m on pro remain leaflets and social media advertising. Add onto this the fact that the government wheeled out every 'expert' it could find to constantly cry about how bad brexit would be - most of them were lying (Mark Carney, George Osbourne in particular told lies of the most astounding nature - for example that brexit would cause more damage to the economy than WW2? Think about that for a minute.). If anything the establishment was stacked against brexit.
- arethuza 6y ago
  I'm Scottish, so I know exactly how "Project Fear" works!
- monkey_monkey 6y ago
  Actually, the referendum was stacked against Remain, as Leave covered every single possible variation of not being in the EU, and at no point had to define anything except being "Not Remain"
  - dash2 6y ago
    I don't think that's a stacked decision. There's no way to specify exactly what each of two options will entail. (If you don't believe me, take a look at a California ballot pamphlet.) Of course Leave was gonna be more uncertain - but normally such uncertainty plays against you in referendums, where the status quo tends to win. If Remain didn't pin Leave down, then that's the fault of their campaigning, not the setup.
    - callamdelaney 6y ago
      Playing on this uncertainty was a conscious decision by the pro remain Conservative government of the time. People would ask 'what will happen after we vote brexit?' the natural reply: 'nobody knows' - well why not? It was clearly reckless to hold a vote on something without a plan on how it was actually to be implemented or even what it might look like; and there were calls for the government to do some investigation here and publish a report or some such document - the decision not to do so was in order to sow that uncertainty.
      - Nursie 6y ago
        Yes that was more or less an explicit choice from Cameron IIRC - if we come up with a plan for what happens afterwards, that plan may reassure people that Brexit can work out OK, and play to the other side. So no plan. Genius.
      - arethuza 6y ago
mytailorisrich 6y ago
Of course, and that would have been absolutely fine. Democracy is to be able to campaign for what you believe in. But equally, politically, and democratically, it is not tenable to call a referendum (which is something quite rare in the UK) and then to ignore the result. So the reality is that the government and Parliament had to abide by the result even if the referendum was legally not binding. Now people are of course free to campaign for the UK to join the EU.
- arethuza 6y ago
  "Now people are of course free to campaign for the UK to join the EU." Or to campaign to leave the UK - which I suspect is a more achievable and sensible option. I'd doubt if the EU would want the UK back anyway.
  - tim333 6y ago
    Or just individually leave the UK. I find the thing kind of depressing. It's not even as if the leave voters seem happy. It seems more of a my life's crap - lets destroy this EU membership thing - oh my life's still crap. Apart from Boris - at least he got to be PM and seems fairly cheerful. Perhaps the lies on a bus were worth it.
  - Eupolemos 6y ago
    Sure we would. It's like a tooth-gap - and there's also the issue of lacking a respected military in times that are getting a lot more... interesting. But it feels like the UK needs to do some domestic cleanup before that has a chance of happening. Seems like the UK media and political landscape has gone completely off the rails.
- tim333 6y ago
  With hindsight I think there should have been two parts. 'Do you want to leave?' and then having looked into the details "ok here's the deal - you still want to go ahead?" I don't think many people were really voting for the present mess. Bit like buying a house - you want it? Ok, well do a survey... it has a bit of dry rot - you still want it or shall we look at other options?

rob74 6y ago

> 49 and younger voted remain getting more strongly remain as you go younger Yeah, but unfortunately only 64% of the under 35 year olds bothered to turn up, while in the older age groups the turnout was much higher (80% for 35-64, 89% for over 65). That was probably a result of many (including the polls) thinking that the "Leave" side didn't have a chance of winning, same as many US Democrat supporters (also supported by the polls) didn't think Trump could win. The US voters got to correct their mistake four years later, no such luck for the UK voters unfortunately...

dijit 6y ago
The vote was held the same day as Glastonbury, just after university terms ended. So the students (18-24) that could vote had to be: A) living with parents during studies, or registered to vote at parents place while not living there full time (illegal) — or! Live full time on their own, which is rarely and B) to not go to Glastonbury, one of the largest festivals in the UK for young adults.
- ferongr 6y ago
  If someone chose to go to a leisure activity instead of voting in a very important referendum that supposedly decided the future of the nation, then their vote was not worth much in the first place.
  - dijit 6y ago
    Most people assumed remain would win and were lax in voting. Hindsight being what it is tells us this was foolish, it that’s how it was.
- Zpalmtree 6y ago
  Students are allowed to register at their home and term-time addresses. https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register > It’s sometimes possible to register at 2 addresses (though you can only vote once in any election). > For example, if you’re a student with different home and term-time addresses, you may be able to register at both.

azornathogron 6y ago

Don't worry; when you get older you'll become more conservative. And you'll be irritated by all the young folks of that future time who are shouting at you for your bad opinions and ignoring your experience and claiming you should be stripped of your vote, because, after all, you'll be dead soon anyway, so your opinion shouldn't matter. (I say this with tongue firmly in cheek, but I do think there is some truth to the idea that people broadly get more conservative as they get older)